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Originally posted by Mantus
Why can’t something come out of nothing? Science says that it is imposible, perhaps it is, or perhaps we are missing a peice of knowledge. You for example say that a “deity, by definition, is not bound to such things as they are not limited to physicality”. Therefore you say that a deity created something out of nothing. I follow this same logic and say that something came out of nothing. I exclude the deity as it simply complicates things. The necessity of a deity is not proven.
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A deity can create something because it is free of that burdensome thing known as causality. An extrauniversal something is necessitated by the existence of causality in our universe. SOMETHING had to move unmoved which is impossible by physics.
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I am not a big math or geometry buff so correct me if I am wrong. But isn’t a circle a part of a sphere? A circle within a sphere seems no more perfect then it was before. Therefore a circle is perfect and a sphere is perfect and neither make’s the other any less perfect. All I am trying to illustrate is that perfection can be a subjective concept in itself. Though my main point is that the perfection does not have to come from a god; it can be inherit in the universe.
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Calling a circle part of a sphere is like calling a grain of sand part of an infinitely long beach. There are infinitely many circles in a sphere. A sphere surpasses the two dimensional world of circled. I suggest reading
Flatland by A. Abbot Abbot (not a stutter). In the same way, you can create unbounded attributes.
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I apologize, I misled by using the word “universe”. I was not referring to the universe of our plane of existence. I was using the word universe in referrence to existence as a whole.
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Our plane of existence IS existence as a whole. The astral plane and such are as much beyond our world as a sphere is beyond the xy plane.
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If god came into existence after the universe, would this deity qualify for the concept of a supreme being? Also even in infinity it is possible for odds never to happen.
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Incorrect, in infinite time all possible outcomes occur with equal probability - I believe 1. Brush up on your statistics and calculus.
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It kind of bothers me that we use subjective concepts to describe another subjective concept. For example we don’t know if the universe is finite or infinite, yet both are used in arguments for god. We can’t agree on what love really is yet we attribute it to god. We are not sure if there is an afterlife or what it could be like, yet we call god the gatekeeper. Omniscience, omnipotence, perfection, afterlife, soul, all these concepts and more are often used to prove god. I think that two subjective concepts can’t be used to create an objective item. We need a link to objectivity.
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If it could be done purely objectively at this point it would be science not philosophy. Until then, all you can do is create comparisons. FUrthermore, I find the fact that proofs of the existence of god are independant of so many of our hypotheses is evidence that a deity must exist TAUTOLOGOUSLY.
Peace be with you,
G