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Mantus · 12-08-2003, 10:26 AM

Aquinas attaches objects (movement, design, humans) to a concept (god) and claims that the reality of the object proves the reality of the concept. The problem is that there is no proof of a link between the objects and the concept.

I will give another example of this. Take the statement “God is life”. Life exists while god is questionable; there is no proven link between the two. While “life”, by itself will exist with or without “god” attached to it, “god” becomes a subjective concept as soon “life” is removed.

We gain no objective knowledge and god remain hypothetical.

Let me go though each of Aquinas' arguments to illustrate this.

First Way: The Argument From Motion

1) Nothing can move itself.
2) If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover.
3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God.

Movement is created though forces. Therefore the first motion can be set by the first force and god is not necessary.

Second Way: Causation Of Existence

1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
2) Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.)
3) There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist.
4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God.

Why can nothing be caused by itself? If it can be assumed that god was caused by itself then why cant anything else do the same? Also the universe is unified. It follows not chains of cause but rather everything interacts to create one cause.

Third Way: Contingent and Neccessary Objects

1) Contingent beings are caused.
2) Not every being can be contingent.
3) There must exist a being which is necessary to cause contingent beings.
4) This necessary being is God.

Same as the creation argument; why is god needed to create a contingent being?

Fourth Way: The Agrument From Degrees And Perfection

St. Thomas formulated this Way from a very interesting observation about the qualities of things. For example one may say that of two marble scultures one is more beautiful than the other. So for these two objects, one has a greater degree of beauty than the next. This is referred to as degrees or gradation of a quality. From this fact Aquinas concluded that for any given quality (e.g. goodness, beauty, knowledge) there must be an perfect standard by which all such qualities are measured. These perfections are contained in God.

The fact that qualities can be infinite is an assumption in itself. Beauty for example can have limits on any particular object. Just as perfection; for example a circle cannot be any more perfect then it already is. Also if there was such a thing as an ultimate quality then it is not necessary that it resides in one being, or any being at all. It is quite possible that the potential is held within the universe itself.

Fifth Way: The Agrument From Intelligent Design

The final Way that St. Thomas Aquinas speaks of has to do with the observable universe and the order of nature. Aquinas states that common sense tells us that the universe works in such a way, that one can conclude that is was designed by an intelligent designer, God. In other words, all physical laws and the order of nature and life were designed and ordered by God, the intelligent designer.

Lets say that there is a one in infinity chance of everything falling into place just right so that the world we have around us exists. While the odds may seem very slim, it can happen and obviously it did happen. One might say that this is more extreme then the concept of god. I would argue that, because god does not explain existence. For what intelligent designer created god, and the god that created that god and so on? If god in all his complexity and infinity always was and always will be, then the universe can always be in the same fashion without the existence of god. Omitting god from the universe simplifies the model.

Each of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments assume that god is necessary. That is the flaw.

12-08-2003, 10:26 AM	#113 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	Aquinas attaches objects (movement, design, humans) to a concept (god) and claims that the reality of the object proves the reality of the concept. The problem is that there is no proof of a link between the objects and the concept. I will give another example of this. Take the statement “God is life”. Life exists while god is questionable; there is no proven link between the two. While “life”, by itself will exist with or without “god” attached to it, “god” becomes a subjective concept as soon “life” is removed. We gain no objective knowledge and god remain hypothetical. Let me go though each of Aquinas' arguments to illustrate this. First Way: The Argument From Motion 1) Nothing can move itself. 2) If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover. 3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God. Movement is created though forces. Therefore the first motion can be set by the first force and god is not necessary. Second Way: Causation Of Existence 1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things. 2) Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.) 3) There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist. 4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God. Why can nothing be caused by itself? If it can be assumed that god was caused by itself then why cant anything else do the same? Also the universe is unified. It follows not chains of cause but rather everything interacts to create one cause. Third Way: Contingent and Neccessary Objects 1) Contingent beings are caused. 2) Not every being can be contingent. 3) There must exist a being which is necessary to cause contingent beings. 4) This necessary being is God. Same as the creation argument; why is god needed to create a contingent being? Fourth Way: The Agrument From Degrees And Perfection St. Thomas formulated this Way from a very interesting observation about the qualities of things. For example one may say that of two marble scultures one is more beautiful than the other. So for these two objects, one has a greater degree of beauty than the next. This is referred to as degrees or gradation of a quality. From this fact Aquinas concluded that for any given quality (e.g. goodness, beauty, knowledge) there must be an perfect standard by which all such qualities are measured. These perfections are contained in God. The fact that qualities can be infinite is an assumption in itself. Beauty for example can have limits on any particular object. Just as perfection; for example a circle cannot be any more perfect then it already is. Also if there was such a thing as an ultimate quality then it is not necessary that it resides in one being, or any being at all. It is quite possible that the potential is held within the universe itself. Fifth Way: The Agrument From Intelligent Design The final Way that St. Thomas Aquinas speaks of has to do with the observable universe and the order of nature. Aquinas states that common sense tells us that the universe works in such a way, that one can conclude that is was designed by an intelligent designer, God. In other words, all physical laws and the order of nature and life were designed and ordered by God, the intelligent designer. Lets say that there is a one in infinity chance of everything falling into place just right so that the world we have around us exists. While the odds may seem very slim, it can happen and obviously it did happen. One might say that this is more extreme then the concept of god. I would argue that, because god does not explain existence. For what intelligent designer created god, and the god that created that god and so on? If god in all his complexity and infinity always was and always will be, then the universe can always be in the same fashion without the existence of god. Omitting god from the universe simplifies the model. Each of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments assume that god is necessary. That is the flaw.