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Originally posted by Cervantes
(To again plagiarize one of my buddys) you missed the point entirely.
I did not say (in any of my messages) that you shouldn't foster and dicipline your chilren. What I am saying is that using too harsh methods of doing it damages your child. Mental abuse has the same longterm affects on the mind as physichal. Proven fact.
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You're right, mental abuse does have devastating effects. But (and this is the point you continue to miss) going in your child's room is NOT mental abuse.
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What would probarbly had happend was that he would have shot them. There was something wrong with that kid in his verry core. Really bad example, she didn't kill anyone, she didn't do anything unlawful, she just broke a rule that her mother had set.
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No, really good example. It points to the fact that involved parents who aren't hung up about this "mental abuse by invasion of privacy" crap are more likely to stop negative behavior before it comes to a head, whether that be shooting up a school or a 17 year old girl getting a few STD's before she gets pregnant.
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Children do have expectation of privacy, the different peroids of defiance that they have during their upbringing (first around 4 secound aroud 7 the next one around 13 the last one around 17) is the kids need of privacy that manifests itself. (Basic child psychology, i'm sure youv'e had a test or two in this).
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Basic law. No, they don't have an expectation of privacy. When I say "expectation of privacy" I don't mean the kid wants privacy, I mean they cannot expect the law to grant them privacy. There is NO law saying a parent can't go into the kid's room.
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First of, I agree that she has a right to state the rules and enforce them, but she doesn't have the right to intrude on her daughters privacy since there was nothing illegal goin on in there.
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what about this is so difficult to comprehend? The daughter was <b>breaking the rules</b>, and you're mad that the mom walked in to catch the daughter <b>breaking the rules</b>. You therefore are saying the mother has the right to set rules, but no right to enforce them unless the daughter breaks them outside of her room. That's absurd.
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Just because the document is used to stop people from being torture doesn't mean that it is not valid in other situations aswell. (duh).
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Again, the document says NOTHING about it being a human rights violation to walk into your kid's room. And I guarantee, the US and probably every other country would never have signed it if it did.
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Okay, maybe I didn't explain that enough. A 17 year old has a very slim chanche of making it in the world on her own. That is because the society demands education, experience so forth and so on. Since everyone, to some degree, has the instinct of self presarvation she understand that by living at home she get's a better chance than if the would be alone. Thus she is "forced" to live at home. (Basic social economics).
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whether you view it as involuntary confinement or not, the fact is that she is living in that house which is not hers and therefore she has to follow the rules of the house.
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Abusing your child is illegal, parenting is not. What her mother did was to use harsher methods of discipline than needed, therfore she was abusing her.
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That, my friend, is complete and utter crap. Walking into a kid's room is NOT abuse by any definition of the word.
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What part of universal don't you understand? Have you even read the document?
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what part of <b>walking into a kid's room is not a human rights violation according to the document</b> don't you understand?
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They do not give her or any other minor the privileges of an adult, the do however give her her the rights of a human being.
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Yes, and she's not being tortured, abused, held in a prison without a trial. . nothing. There is no human rights violation going on here. You're trying to compare her situation to prison camps and genocide, and it's asinine. the human rights declaration has NOTHING whatsoever to do with parenting techniques!
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So what youre saying is that property is more important than humans.. hmm... interesting.. I always though it was the other way aound. Odd.. Where ever could I have gotten such an idea? (note the sarcasm)
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Uhh, no, I didn't say that. I can't even figure out why you think I said that.
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Again you miss the point, part of a childs development into a grown human being is to free herself from her parents, that means breaking the rules.
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and it means consequences when she breaks them. By the way, it is possible to gain independence without breaking the rules. Part of parenting is demonstrating that there are consequences when rules are broken.
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This is (and your teacher should have told you this since it is part of the very basics of psychology) normal and the way it should be.
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So is decent parenting, which includes knowing what the hell your kid is doing.
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If you suspect your kid of using crack you have an obligation to go into her room and make sure because crack is illegal
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Woah, wait a second. I thought it was a violation of universal human rights to go into your kid's room! I thought it was psychological torture and mental abuse! So what if she's breaking the law? She's a CHILD! We can't abuse her!
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if your 17 year old is having sex on the other hand she is not breaking any law she is just exploring some of the better parts of life.
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Uh, no, she's breaking YOUR laws that YOU layed down as a condition for living in YOUR house punishment free.
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So a john has the right to abuse a prostitute simply because he's paying?
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I never said that either. And parenting your child is not abuse.
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Discipline yes, abuse no (very big difference here). My mother and father brought me up on the basis of mutual respect, they respected me and my thoughts and I respected them, their rules and wishes.
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Glad to hear it. Too bad this girl doesn't respect her mom's rules and therefore a different approach is required. And while there is a difference between abuse and discipline, you're not seeing it.
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Nowhere did they use any form of abuse or humiliation. Why do
you insist on passing on the abuse and wrongdoings you sufferd as a kid to your own children?
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I was never abused as a child. Sure, my parents knew what I was up to, but that's their JOB. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the reason we have so many rotten kids these days is because parents aren't doing their JOB, be it out of laziness or out of this ridiculous fear that discipline (which includes keeping tabs on your children) will scar the kid for life?
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This is my last message, you are obviously not worth having a discussion about human rights with since you apparently can't understand the very basis of them.
Discussion is over.
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That's not a personal attack? Pot. Kettle. Black.