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Plan9Senior · 11-30-2003, 02:35 AM

Just an update to my RL situations (in case anybody gives 2/3 of a turd), I made a boo-boo. This weekend I met a girl at a club, got her number and ended up getting invited to an afterhours party at her friends house. I showed up late and she was on her way out... I stayed and ended up meeting some girl (whos boyfriend was passed out on the couch) and got her number as well. The next day (tonight) I ran into a group of people (some of those who happened to be at this afterhours party) and met some girl, who was a 9 on my scale, and ended up hitting it off with her and getting her number. Afterwards I figured out that she was friends with both of the girls that I got their numbers the previous night. Ugh! Not sure what will happen, but it definately will prove to be interesting nonetheless

Anyhow, here is another lesson... or rant if you would...

Lately I noticed a lot of guys making excuses for not wanting sex, being celibate, or being intentional IWs ("intellectual whores"—it basically means an AFC who is being used). I gave several responses to try to convince them to change their ways, and in doing so I came to some realizations about why so many guys continue in their IW ways. Some of this stuff might sound like common sense to you guys, but I think it will help if I begin to clarify it and put it into written format.

(Cliff notes: This article expains why guys should follow their desires instead of denying them.)

These guys are afflicted with what I am calling "Fox/Grapes" Syndrome. I am of course alluding to the classic Aesop fable for children here: http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html

Basically the fox fails to get the grapes, so he comforts himself by deciding that they were probably sour anyway.

A guy with fox/grapes syndrome is making a similar mistake by convincing himself that women or sex is sour, because he needs to deal with the fact that he is not getting any. He is finding a treatment for the problem, not a cure. I have been there. I have done that. It sucked. I hope I can spare other guys the pain. He simply needs to learn how to do what is necessary to get the grapes, instead of learning how to live in some form of denial.

Here is my thesis: any man (over 16 or 17, with normal sex drive) who is not doing his best to get women is hurting himself and probably in some kind of denial.

Now we will look at some manifestations of this problem.

When a guy realizes that he is not having the success he wants with women, and decides that he needs to change, he will probably be soon undergo some of the following, in some kind of combination or order.

I. Low self-esteem:
He decides his failures with women are his fault, and that there is something wrong with him, likes his looks, his personality, or whatever. This can lead the guy to try to improve his looks, or his connections, or his finances. He might even land a girl by accident. In the extreme, he might resort to suicide, rape or murder.

II. Misogyny:
He blames women for his failures with them and decides there is something wrong with them. Strangely enough, this attitude can make him slightly more attractive to women, so again, he might be able to attract a girl purely by accident.

III. Denial-Based Mindsets and Worldviews:
He must reconcile the fact that he is a good person, yet he can't get women. So he creates himself a skewed view of the world to maintain his self esteem. Examples—a nice guy self-image, religious/scientific/moral justifications, a victim mindset, or escapism. I'm sure there are more that I haven't listed. Of course, if a guy has religious/scientific/moral/political beliefs, he is not necessarily guilty of being like the fox with the grapes. Everyone's worldview is skewed in some way, including me in this article. What I mean here is that anyone who skews their worldview even more to justify not fulfilling their healthy desires is playing the fox.

Here is the kind of dialogue that might be playing in the guy's head. He is deluding himself, but he doesn't know any better. I think most guys will find this familiar:

"I am a good person. Yet I do not get women. If there is nothing wrong with me, and nothing wrong with them, so there must be some reason why I am not having the success I desire. I do not get women, so maybe there is some reason why I shouldn't get women, or I shouldn't want women...[now he thinks up some justifications like the ones I shall list]"

(Of course, this kind of self delusion is not limited to guys trying to get girls. Both men and women do it in many areas, such as making money i.e. "I am a hard working person. Yet I don't make much money. There must be some reason why I shouldn't have/want money..." My post is written about women, yet most of it applies to just about any deep desire.)

Being around attractive women is bittersweet when he knows that he will not be able to have sex with them. Every guy knows this intuitively. However, some guys get addicted to the sweet part of unfulfilled lust, and they learn to sooth the pain of the bitter part. So they create a belief system or self-image which allows them to sooth or deny the pain. At least his self esteem is not so badly damaged following this path. However, a warped worldview is hard to maintain. I tried. I failed. It sucked. Now I know better. Every time he sees a hot girl, or hears his friends talking about chicks, he must remind himself of his justifications for not getting women. Living in denial takes perpetual work.

Here is another manifestation of such skewed thinking: "I am not going to change my identity just to get girls." So he simply sits and watches the ladies pass him by. At some point, he needs to make a choice: is he willing to do what it takes? More on this in my conclusion.

11-30-2003, 02:35 AM	#150 (permalink)
Plan9Senior Banned Location: Orange County, California	Just an update to my RL situations (in case anybody gives 2/3 of a turd), I made a boo-boo. This weekend I met a girl at a club, got her number and ended up getting invited to an afterhours party at her friends house. I showed up late and she was on her way out... I stayed and ended up meeting some girl (whos boyfriend was passed out on the couch) and got her number as well. The next day (tonight) I ran into a group of people (some of those who happened to be at this afterhours party) and met some girl, who was a 9 on my scale, and ended up hitting it off with her and getting her number. Afterwards I figured out that she was friends with both of the girls that I got their numbers the previous night. Ugh! Not sure what will happen, but it definately will prove to be interesting nonetheless Anyhow, here is another lesson... or rant if you would... Lately I noticed a lot of guys making excuses for not wanting sex, being celibate, or being intentional IWs ("intellectual whores"—it basically means an AFC who is being used). I gave several responses to try to convince them to change their ways, and in doing so I came to some realizations about why so many guys continue in their IW ways. Some of this stuff might sound like common sense to you guys, but I think it will help if I begin to clarify it and put it into written format. (Cliff notes: This article expains why guys should follow their desires instead of denying them.) These guys are afflicted with what I am calling "Fox/Grapes" Syndrome. I am of course alluding to the classic Aesop fable for children here: http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html Basically the fox fails to get the grapes, so he comforts himself by deciding that they were probably sour anyway. A guy with fox/grapes syndrome is making a similar mistake by convincing himself that women or sex is sour, because he needs to deal with the fact that he is not getting any. He is finding a treatment for the problem, not a cure. I have been there. I have done that. It sucked. I hope I can spare other guys the pain. He simply needs to learn how to do what is necessary to get the grapes, instead of learning how to live in some form of denial. Here is my thesis: any man (over 16 or 17, with normal sex drive) who is not doing his best to get women is hurting himself and probably in some kind of denial. Now we will look at some manifestations of this problem. When a guy realizes that he is not having the success he wants with women, and decides that he needs to change, he will probably be soon undergo some of the following, in some kind of combination or order. I. Low self-esteem: He decides his failures with women are his fault, and that there is something wrong with him, likes his looks, his personality, or whatever. This can lead the guy to try to improve his looks, or his connections, or his finances. He might even land a girl by accident. In the extreme, he might resort to suicide, rape or murder. II. Misogyny: He blames women for his failures with them and decides there is something wrong with them. Strangely enough, this attitude can make him slightly more attractive to women, so again, he might be able to attract a girl purely by accident. III. Denial-Based Mindsets and Worldviews: He must reconcile the fact that he is a good person, yet he can't get women. So he creates himself a skewed view of the world to maintain his self esteem. Examples—a nice guy self-image, religious/scientific/moral justifications, a victim mindset, or escapism. I'm sure there are more that I haven't listed. Of course, if a guy has religious/scientific/moral/political beliefs, he is not necessarily guilty of being like the fox with the grapes. Everyone's worldview is skewed in some way, including me in this article. What I mean here is that anyone who skews their worldview even more to justify not fulfilling their healthy desires is playing the fox. Here is the kind of dialogue that might be playing in the guy's head. He is deluding himself, but he doesn't know any better. I think most guys will find this familiar: "I am a good person. Yet I do not get women. If there is nothing wrong with me, and nothing wrong with them, so there must be some reason why I am not having the success I desire. I do not get women, so maybe there is some reason why I shouldn't get women, or I shouldn't want women...[now he thinks up some justifications like the ones I shall list]" (Of course, this kind of self delusion is not limited to guys trying to get girls. Both men and women do it in many areas, such as making money i.e. "I am a hard working person. Yet I don't make much money. There must be some reason why I shouldn't have/want money..." My post is written about women, yet most of it applies to just about any deep desire.) Being around attractive women is bittersweet when he knows that he will not be able to have sex with them. Every guy knows this intuitively. However, some guys get addicted to the sweet part of unfulfilled lust, and they learn to sooth the pain of the bitter part. So they create a belief system or self-image which allows them to sooth or deny the pain. At least his self esteem is not so badly damaged following this path. However, a warped worldview is hard to maintain. I tried. I failed. It sucked. Now I know better. Every time he sees a hot girl, or hears his friends talking about chicks, he must remind himself of his justifications for not getting women. Living in denial takes perpetual work. Here is another manifestation of such skewed thinking: "I am not going to change my identity just to get girls." So he simply sits and watches the ladies pass him by. At some point, he needs to make a choice: is he willing to do what it takes? More on this in my conclusion.