Rodney

I went to college 30 years ago, and I'm in grad school now (MA Education with a teaching credential thrown in). So I can offer a little perspective.

First, education matters more to those who know what it's like not to have some, and truly want to better themselves. I started at community college 30 years ago, at a time when schools like that one were crammed with middle-aged re-entry women and Vietnam-era vets of all ages (we were right down the road from a humongo airbase). The profs didn't get away with anything: they'd make some statement, and some old master sergeant in the back of the room would call them on it. In political science I sat next to a retired Air Force guy who'd been on detached duty for the CIA in Vietnam, and he gave that prof hell throug the entire course. Just said what he thought, all the time. And those re-entry women were no pushovers, either; a lot of them were older than a lot of the faculty, and they had experience. It was mostly the kids who slacked off, or who were afraid to say anything against what the professors said.

30 years later, I was taking community college courses again, during the day and in the evening. And there's a big different between the day students and the night students. The day students are mostly what lordjeebus describes: slackers, doing as little work as possible, whining about grades, talking in class, all that. Because most of them are 18 or 19. At night, there's a larger proportion of people from age 25-50 and beyond. And these are people who are going to school after a hard day in the shop, or the office, or taking care of the kids. If they didn't care, they wouldn't be there. The work gets done right (most of the time, we still have young slackers), they work hard, and -- well, some of them have opinions. They're still not as outspoken as those old vets and moms from 30 years ago, though some are. More than in day classes, anyway.

Flash back 30 years again, and I'm in a state college for the final two years of my BA. It was a step backwards -- college just isn't as much fun when everybody's 18, mostly don't know what they want yet, and aren't necessarily there for teh right reasons, except that they're "supposed to" go to college to succeed in the world. So, Lord, these problems aren't new. The problem is, most students aren't exactly in love with learning for learning's sake, and they'll never get there unless some professor hooks them. And unfortunately, most professors aren't great teachers. With one or two exceptions, most of the kick-ass teachers I've had were untenured lecturers, people who were still relatively new to their field, still in love with it, and even working in it outside of class. For too many of the tenured guys, it's just a no-can-fire-me job in which you can do anything you want. Or worse, it's mainly about research, and the students are second priority. And of course, what happens if you disagree with the professor, and he doesn't like it? There are things he can do -- things to your grade, recommendations he can choose not to write, many other things. I've seen it.

Which brings me back to the present: Flash forward 30 years again -- second community college stint over, me in grad school now. Learning about teaching with a group of mostly female, mostly early-20-somethings. Still some slackers, but not many because teaching is not an easy profession and most of my colleagues (not all of them) are smart enough to see that. And it's a very liberal school, and the profs pride themselves on being open and liberal and most of the students feel that way, too. But since the profs are very free about giving their political opinions in class -- and frankly, almost everything in education is political these days -- people who don't hew to that line stay silent. And this is in a program where group discussion and reflection (I'm sick of that word) are a major part of the instructional style. So there's a certain amount of ass-kissing, going along, and people who don't feel at ease risk their participation in the program.

Give them credit, apparently the teaching program administration picked up on the fact that some people didn't feel free to talk, and the program head (who teaches one of the classes) sat down in front of us this week and said, "What's the problem, what can we do about this?" Hey, let's open a dialog, very PC thing to do, but the right thing in this case. Only one of the conservatives opened up by the time class ended (the most thoughtful one), but we're continuing the discussion. In the meantime, I sent the prof an email that all boils down to this question: If I disagree with the professor in class, what happens to me? We're talking about a professional program in which recommendations are needed, and in which your classmates are also going to become your job-hunting network. Anyway, she wrote back that she just hadn't thought anyone would ever be afraid of crossing her -- well, I guess it's been a long time since she's been a student. But I'm hopeful.

At any rate, professors are part of the problem, and so is the whole education=job thing. People aren't there for education necessarily, just for a job. And when something is seen as threatening that job possibility -- disagreeing with the teacher -- it doesn't happen. Safer to suck up. It's happening even in my program, one that emphasizes participation and honest discussion.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to dismantle half the universities in favor of technical or trade colleges that just teach you a skill or profession and make no bones about making you a well-rounded individual. You could probably get a CS education in three years or less that way, business, too. Then make four-year colleges mainly for the people who really want to broaden themselves. Which is a good idea when preparing for any profession, ultimately, but recruiters don't actually care, so hey.

Aside from that, I'd propose classes somewhat like the ones I'm in now -- lots of discussion, lots of group projects (slackers end up on their own, if they don't watch it), lots of open-ended inquiry. You can't come up with the answer that the teacher wants if _he won't tell you what it is._ And I've had a couple of good profs who play that game -- maddening, but good. Ultimately, though, even through this open-ended approach, people need to feel free to say what they want, and it has to be encouraged. It's not real education if it's just regurgitation. You gotta build the knowledge in your own mind, through research, argument, and defense of argument, before it really sticks in there and becomes part of you. Even in the teaching program at Liberally Enlightened University, we're still working on that. Although frankly, I'm pleased that it's being addressed at all because I have _never_ seen this topic come up in any class before.

God, where am I going with this? I gues that, mainly you're right, lordjeebus. But the situation is better when students have better motivation for being in school, like the reentry women who didn't just want to be mommies anymore , or a better sense of self like those old soldiers. A school full of 19-year-olds just doesn't cut it. And the professors get slack, because nobody calls them on anything.