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no firewall on a router only which has/had same settings nothing changed there after the format he settings are all intact, i appreciate all the input and i think i may have found it, it seems if i delete the cookies stored for these websites i have a high rate of success on logging in so i just added a lil thing on window washer when it runs every couple of hours to delet the cookies stored for these sites and i think that will handle it.
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Spank you very much
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