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thanks filtherton, thats exactly what i am talking about.
i don't necessarily agree with (filtherton), but there is a another viewpoint that shows flaws in kyo's argument. thats not to say that either one is right or wrong, but it shows how theory's are based on presuppositions that aren't necessarily shared by all in the discussion. kyo seems to be arguing points 6-10 (which may be valid in his assumed scenario), but some of the rest of us disagree with parts of 1-5. thanks for a post free of condescension. pleasant change of pace.
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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
~ Winston Churchill
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