Quote:
Originally posted by irateplatypus
kyo,
tell you how you are wrong? wow, you're completely missing the thrust of a philosophical discussion. i can't tell you you're wrong in the sense that you would be wrong if you told me the capital of texas were philadelphia. i can only express disagreement in your approach to the problem, which i've already done by posting an alternate viewpoint. we're coming from differing basic assumptions about time and God's temporal nature.
your reasoning may or may not have flaws, but much of it depends on the assumptions and baggage you (and everyone else) brings to the discussion. and yes, i do think its pertinent that everyone else is wrestling with the issue. my backup is the fact that someone thought it necessary to start a discussion about this line of thought, so it must be unresolved. my example is my own humble contribution to this thread, as well as millenia of philosophical dissertations on the subject expressing so many ideas.
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- I am trying to find a satisfactory, logical answer to a posed question. What do you believe the point to be?
- Your alternate viewpoint contains flaws which I have already addressed - several times, and you have failed to defend your views.
- Which assumptions and baggage are you referring to?
- The problem with your final argument is that all of the philosophy departments of the world are not currently participating in this discussion, therefore, we have no more fuel for our discussion because we have ironed out our final answer. Until someone is able to challenge this answer in an objective fashion (say, members of some philosophy department), it is meaningless to say that this discussion can't be over just because other people (who are elsewhere and are not participating in this discussion) haven't finished working through it themselves. In other words, the problem may be deeper than we think, but if none of the participants can come up with a better answer, we are done.
- As for this: "There is also a good chance that we are not able to comprehend God's perspective on time, especially with the assumptions made about God in this particular discussion." I believe God's perspective on time to be irrelevant. He knows all - regardless of time, space, or any other parameter. It doesn't matter at all how God sees time, or what time really is - because however actions happen in 'time', God knows what they are.
- In case it is somehow not yet clear to you, I will address your plate washing example in more detail. If you know, for a fact (not just from experience - ie, "He
never washes the dishes," etc.) that your friend will not wash the dishes, than there is no possible way that he could wash them. He will, with 100% probability, 'choose' not to wash the dishes. Choosing with 100% probability is equivalent to not having a choice. If you flip a coin and know, for a fact, that it will come down heads, the coin may as well be one-sided. There is absolutely no way that it will come down tails - because you already
know that it will come down heads.
Show me a flaw in this reasoning and we will have more to discuss.