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Orodinn · 11-07-2003, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by analog
I wasn't trying to tell anyone how to act, I was providing an example in which your choice to automatically exclude violence as an option at the onset of conflict can cause you to falter, or leave yourself vulnerable.

And now I'll answer your question directly: if I could take the guy, I'd tell him to fuck off and keep walking. If he yelled after me, I'd keep walking, staying quiet. If, however, he followed and made more of an ordeal out of it, I'd lay him out. He's a scumbag, and committed sexual battery. Maybe he just needs to be taught a lesson. Lots of people need one good "awakening" to set them straight. And you know what, if that's 1% of all scumbags, then I still have a shot at making a difference.

If I had no prayer of kicking the guy's ass, I'd ignore him and keep walking, away from him, to a safe place. If he followed, and tried to get physical, i'd do my best to defend the girl. I may not win, but I'll sure as hell put up a long enough fight for the girl to get to a safe place. Really the only difference between whether or not I could kick his ass is that if i could, I'd PROBABLY at least talk some shit to him first. I can't tell you I wouldn't, I'm sure i'd be lying.

I don't have a super ego, I don't think I can beat up anyone I want, i don't WANT to beat people up. I'm a fairly religious person and abide by basic principles of decency every day of my life. I'm 22, and have been in exactly 2 fights. One was in middle school (age 13 or so) over something as stupid as a game we used to play on the bus gone wrong, and the other was because a guy in a club was harrassing the girlfriend (the girl is also a VERY good friend of mine) of a guy who's a friend I consider my brother. He confronted the guy, saying, "Hey, she didn't come here with you, and she didn't ask you to bother her. She told you no, take it like a man and walk away, ok?" He's a great guy in many respects, and is also VERY protective of his girl. By the time I hear him get 3 words in, I've already gotten her behind me, and i'm standing just next to/behind my friend. He finishes what he was saying, and the guy sucker punches him in the face. My friend staggered back, almost falling, but I snuck around him and punched the guy in HIS face. He hit the floor. The room we were in was the techno room, which has weird angled walls, so no one could see us where we were. No one else came to help. He muttered something about "you son of a bitch" and I ignored it, and told my friend to take her away and out of the club, i was just going to stand there a minute and make sure he could get out without the guy attackign them again. And then he said, as he stood up, "looks like she's looser than an old whore anyway." I put him back on the floor, I kicked him in his crotch, and then I twisted his arm behind his back. At that point, I realized things could only go worse from there, so I simply said, "don't be an asshole." and left.

My friend was sucker-punched because he didn't consider violence as an option, and left his guard down. If I wasn't there, who knows what could have happened to him and his girl?

I still feel bad for going as far with it as I did, but only because I let my emotion override my reasoning, which was telling me I could go to jail, not because I'm remorseful of my actions.

I absolutely believe in violence as a last resort ONLY, in EVERY case, but to deny it as an option will only serve to partially blind me and blunt the sharp edge of my abilities.

Since you asked, I'll provide another example. Most people who are shot in their homes during a break-in are shot because they falter, and are vulnerable at the point of decision.

Part of safety training for firearms is that you should NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you specifically intend to shoot them- not to threaten them, not to intimidate them, but to shoot them. These people are shot in their own homes because they make a choice to pick up a gun they keep for self-defense. These people are shot because at the moment of decision, they will foolishly raise their gun, and their life-long unwillingness to accept violence as an answer will cause a delay in pulling the trigger. The other person has no such delay and, seeing the gun pointed, will shoot you first. If you go through life always refusing one portion of a thought process, that part WILL FAIL YOU when it is supposed to help you, because you've trained yourself to ignore it.

I didn't even really mean for this to be about violence, because it holds true for anything. Why limit yourself? You can only learn more from thoroughly analyzing all aspects of a situation, and not fully exploring leaves gaps in your knowledge. I strive for knowledge and better understanding in all things.

Quote:

My friend was sucker-punched because he didn't consider violence as an option, and left his guard down. If I wasn't there, who knows what could have happened to him and his girl?

Ill start with that statement. Your friend most likely would have gotten punched wether he decided to act violently or not. I think what you meant is that had he attacked first, he couldve avoided the whole situation. You know, really can't do anything once the other decides to go violent, BUT it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to use violence to prevent the other from doing harm. You might as well kill anyone whom you suspect can be dangerous so that they can't touch you. See what I mean?

Let's isolate the incident to have a better understanding of the problematic of the situation. Let's pretend there are no consequences legally. Now, let's see what your friend can do (before or after getting punched in the face). He can either choose to go violent or not. If he chooses to replicate physically, one of the 2 would likely end up badly wounded or worse, dead. As I said earlier, choosing destruction gives you instant gratification at the expense of long term damage. Now, your friend might feel better if he won the fight and feel like he's safe now but the truth is that the problem is not solved yet. It's possible that the other guy gets all his friends to get revenge and gets your friend beaten senselessly. The problem is not solved and it can keep escalading. It's also possible that he never meets the guy again and don't hear about it ever again, but he'll have to fear the possibility that he could. But that's not the reason why I say his problem isn't solved. If he always chooses violence as the solution to his problems (wether it's the first option or the last one, doesn't matter) he will most likely meet someone stronger than him physically someday who'll kick the crap outta him. Your friend can also choose not to act violent. If he gets punched in the face he can get up and tell the agressor that he still won't fight. Violent people are so because they feel inferior somehow or are unable to solve their problems differently. At the core, their goal isn't to destroy someone, but to show their superiority. They got something to prove. If you choose not to fall in his game and decide not to fight, the other will feel as if he's won and proved that he was superior. His goal reached, he most likely won't keep fighting. Someday, maybe he'll realize he was the weaker man for resorting to violence, but for now, you're safe and your problem is completely solved. You don't have to fear any comeback from the guy ever again.

Quote:

Part of safety training for firearms is that you should NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you specifically intend to shoot them- not to threaten them, not to intimidate them, but to shoot them. These people are shot in their own homes because they make a choice to pick up a gun they keep for self-defense. These people are shot because at the moment of decision, they will foolishly raise their gun, and their life-long unwillingness to accept violence as an answer will cause a delay in pulling the trigger. The other person has no such delay and, seeing the gun pointed, will shoot you first. If you go through life always refusing one portion of a thought process, that part WILL FAIL YOU when it is supposed to help you, because you've trained yourself to ignore it.

You have to realize violence isn't always physical. Saying "fuck you" is a violent act and while it may seem inoffensive, it can easily escalatate into fists fights and worse. These people get shot because they choose violence as an option before the break-in, by equiping themselves with a gun, and after the break-in by threatening the agressor with a gun. Should these people had chosen not to buy a gun or not to use the gun during the break-in, they would still be alive. Threatening someone is a violent act and goes into the category "destructive" solution.