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eple · 10-24-2003, 08:12 AM

Hmm...calling me anti-american is kind of weak, try to debate without labeling people. I am not anti-American, but I do have opinions on American policy, it affects me too, see.

I don't expect you to know much about Norway (I don't think that is required, we're pretty insignificant), but I could mention that Norway was a poor fishing nation until the late 70's, and that your grandparents wouldn't have moved here anyway, as we sucked.

I do see the appeal in a society where anyone can work their way up, but I don't think that is the reality in the US today. There is a significant border between the classes of American society. To get power and money,you need high education, and to get that, you need money and power. The immigration fills up the slots in the lowest classes, maintaining a steady supply of cheap employment.

As I said, I belive that welfare for a majority is better than full "freedom" to the vast minority. Freedom is more than the freedom to pursue money and power on everyone elses expense, in fact, I don't think of that as freedom at all. A famous Norwegian politician (Einar Gerdhardsen, leader of the Norwegian Labour, prime minister for a long period after WWII) once gave a word of advice: Do your duty, demand your right. First, you do what is required of you as citizen, then you demand your rights (as I write it down, I recognize how it matches Kennedy's "ask not what your country should do for you..."-quote a few years later). Anyways, it's pointless to compare Norway to the US, USA have always been a naiton of immigrants, and have based it's growth on it. Norway is just a former poor country, recently gaining independence and with a generally poor amount of resources and industry (we have 3% fertile landscape usable for farming, and most of our landmass are too rough, cold or high to support any industry). There are only so many oil rig workers needed, and the rest of us can't all work as artists and salesmen.

Hmm...here I go rambling on...I did at some point forget what we were debating, so....well hooray for a working social democracy anyway. Hope we can get one in Norway again some day.

10-24-2003, 08:12 AM	#49 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Hmm...calling me anti-american is kind of weak, try to debate without labeling people. I am not anti-American, but I do have opinions on American policy, it affects me too, see. I don't expect you to know much about Norway (I don't think that is required, we're pretty insignificant), but I could mention that Norway was a poor fishing nation until the late 70's, and that your grandparents wouldn't have moved here anyway, as we sucked. I do see the appeal in a society where anyone can work their way up, but I don't think that is the reality in the US today. There is a significant border between the classes of American society. To get power and money,you need high education, and to get that, you need money and power. The immigration fills up the slots in the lowest classes, maintaining a steady supply of cheap employment. As I said, I belive that welfare for a majority is better than full "freedom" to the vast minority. Freedom is more than the freedom to pursue money and power on everyone elses expense, in fact, I don't think of that as freedom at all. A famous Norwegian politician (Einar Gerdhardsen, leader of the Norwegian Labour, prime minister for a long period after WWII) once gave a word of advice: Do your duty, demand your right. First, you do what is required of you as citizen, then you demand your rights (as I write it down, I recognize how it matches Kennedy's "ask not what your country should do for you..."-quote a few years later). Anyways, it's pointless to compare Norway to the US, USA have always been a naiton of immigrants, and have based it's growth on it. Norway is just a former poor country, recently gaining independence and with a generally poor amount of resources and industry (we have 3% fertile landscape usable for farming, and most of our landmass are too rough, cold or high to support any industry). There are only so many oil rig workers needed, and the rest of us can't all work as artists and salesmen. Hmm...here I go rambling on...I did at some point forget what we were debating, so....well hooray for a working social democracy anyway. Hope we can get one in Norway again some day.