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toxic515 · 10-17-2003, 05:20 PM

I posted a rather long post under "why I am a Buddhist"... In fact, I had intended to put it into "what turned you against religion" but since this post is here, I am going to copy and paste it with only very slight editing. Those of you who've dealt with my rants before, please forgive me, as I have a tendancy to be rather verbose on these subjects so as not to present an ambiguous position. :-)

The fast answer, for those of you who prefer to cut to the chase: In my opinion and the reasoning that I follow, religion for me is irrelevant other than to understand why other people act the way they do. I intend no ill will towards those whose REASONING has led them down a path, so long as they understand what they believe. I think it is possible to be a spiritual realist.

" Man cannot escape from the need for philosophy; his only alternative is whether the philosophy guiding him is to be chosen by his mind or by chance" -Ayn Rand

• Religion is a primitive form of philosophy. It attempts to provide a theory of the nature of man, man’s place in the universe, and a guide to human action. But religion (in and of itself) admittedly has no rational basis, meaning: no basis at all. “Faith” is merely someone’s assertion (without evidence) that something is true. As a “guide” to life it couldn’t be more dangerous. And it is becoming an increasing danger to Americans as the 22nd century opens. The religious right’s efforts to enforce religion and destroy our rights is all around us: laws preventing abortion and assisted suicide, censorship, laws against homosexuality.

I'm not at all opposed to allowing others to worship as they see fit. I encourage everyone to perceive reality. I am an ordained minister, rather well educated in Christianity and it's various forms, as well as Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, and wiccan. I have not turned my back on ANY of them as a codified system of behaviour. The issue here is to perceive REALITY.

• Instead of turning to reason and reality many are turning to what they think is an alternative: religion. It is easier, they think, or worse, they FEEL.

In today’s industrial civilization, people normally recognize the difference between the secular and the religious. Even those who believe in the Bible, for example, would generally not proclaim Scripture to be science — any more than those who faithfully read their horoscopes would declare astrology to be part of astronomy.

That being the case, I often wonder exactly why we become so mired in the clutches of DOGMA. I have turned my back on DOGMA. I find that I was lied to in many ways. Not lied to with malice, but lied to in ignorance. Lied to by people who never had the courage or conviction to examine their thought process, their belief system.

• Faith and reason represent antithetical philosophies. The advocates of faith declare that we must accept as true that which is unknowable to the rational mind — that we must believe the pronouncements of some “higher” authority in the absence of any objective evidence, or in outright contradiction to the evidence. That's sadly true of each of the religions I have studied. By that statement, I mean the DOGMA. The tenants of each of those are something more, something different. Love, peace, spiritual development, and honesty are at the core, and those values any man of any faith can embrace wholeheartedly, and with the full power of REASON. It can be done without the metaphysical trappings of religion. Man grasps a concept and a truth solely by a process of reason, which is based on data provided by the senses.

At any moment, and across any lifetime, the choice is always either/or: either follow your reasoning mind, or abandon it and place something above it. There is no “middle-of-the-road.”
• ANY dogma presented as a pure truth, without evidence, is an insidious attack on reason, and on the human capacity — and the human right — to live by means of one’s rational thinking.

You needn't turn your back on anything directly, but be certain you understand what you believe. Base it on empirical evidence, sensory input.

If mystical faith is the basis of knowledge, logic and persuasion are irrelevant. There is only the brute assertion: “Well, that’s what I feel like believing — and I believe that you better believe it too.” There is no recourse but force.
• Throughout history, wherever religion has dominated, freedom has disappeared. From the Catholic Inquisition’s persecution of Galileo for accepting the evidence of his mind, to the Iranian Ayatollahs’ sentencing of Salman Rushdie to death for expressing his views about Islam, to the current attacks on abortion clinics in the name of religion, and America's victimization on Sept. 11... — the only way mysticism has been implemented is by force.

There is an urgent need to defend reason. But let the battle lines be clear. The war is between those who subordinate reason to other considerations — whether subjective whims or supernatural dogmas — and those who intransigently uphold it.

10-17-2003, 05:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
toxic515 Addict Location: Texas	I posted a rather long post under "why I am a Buddhist"... In fact, I had intended to put it into "what turned you against religion" but since this post is here, I am going to copy and paste it with only very slight editing. Those of you who've dealt with my rants before, please forgive me, as I have a tendancy to be rather verbose on these subjects so as not to present an ambiguous position. :-) The fast answer, for those of you who prefer to cut to the chase: In my opinion and the reasoning that I follow, religion for me is irrelevant other than to understand why other people act the way they do. I intend no ill will towards those whose REASONING has led them down a path, so long as they understand what they believe. I think it is possible to be a spiritual realist. " Man cannot escape from the need for philosophy; his only alternative is whether the philosophy guiding him is to be chosen by his mind or by chance" -Ayn Rand • Religion is a primitive form of philosophy. It attempts to provide a theory of the nature of man, man’s place in the universe, and a guide to human action. But religion (in and of itself) admittedly has no rational basis, meaning: no basis at all. “Faith” is merely someone’s assertion (without evidence) that something is true. As a “guide” to life it couldn’t be more dangerous. And it is becoming an increasing danger to Americans as the 22nd century opens. The religious right’s efforts to enforce religion and destroy our rights is all around us: laws preventing abortion and assisted suicide, censorship, laws against homosexuality. I'm not at all opposed to allowing others to worship as they see fit. I encourage everyone to perceive reality. I am an ordained minister, rather well educated in Christianity and it's various forms, as well as Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, and wiccan. I have not turned my back on ANY of them as a codified system of behaviour. The issue here is to perceive REALITY. • Instead of turning to reason and reality many are turning to what they think is an alternative: religion. It is easier, they think, or worse, they FEEL. In today’s industrial civilization, people normally recognize the difference between the secular and the religious. Even those who believe in the Bible, for example, would generally not proclaim Scripture to be science — any more than those who faithfully read their horoscopes would declare astrology to be part of astronomy. That being the case, I often wonder exactly why we become so mired in the clutches of DOGMA. I have turned my back on DOGMA. I find that I was lied to in many ways. Not lied to with malice, but lied to in ignorance. Lied to by people who never had the courage or conviction to examine their thought process, their belief system. • Faith and reason represent antithetical philosophies. The advocates of faith declare that we must accept as true that which is unknowable to the rational mind — that we must believe the pronouncements of some “higher” authority in the absence of any objective evidence, or in outright contradiction to the evidence. That's sadly true of each of the religions I have studied. By that statement, I mean the DOGMA. The tenants of each of those are something more, something different. Love, peace, spiritual development, and honesty are at the core, and those values any man of any faith can embrace wholeheartedly, and with the full power of REASON. It can be done without the metaphysical trappings of religion. Man grasps a concept and a truth solely by a process of reason, which is based on data provided by the senses. At any moment, and across any lifetime, the choice is always either/or: either follow your reasoning mind, or abandon it and place something above it. There is no “middle-of-the-road.” • ANY dogma presented as a pure truth, without evidence, is an insidious attack on reason, and on the human capacity — and the human right — to live by means of one’s rational thinking. You needn't turn your back on anything directly, but be certain you understand what you believe. Base it on empirical evidence, sensory input. If mystical faith is the basis of knowledge, logic and persuasion are irrelevant. There is only the brute assertion: “Well, that’s what I feel like believing — and I believe that you better believe it too.” There is no recourse but force. • Throughout history, wherever religion has dominated, freedom has disappeared. From the Catholic Inquisition’s persecution of Galileo for accepting the evidence of his mind, to the Iranian Ayatollahs’ sentencing of Salman Rushdie to death for expressing his views about Islam, to the current attacks on abortion clinics in the name of religion, and America's victimization on Sept. 11... — the only way mysticism has been implemented is by force. There is an urgent need to defend reason. But let the battle lines be clear. The war is between those who subordinate reason to other considerations — whether subjective whims or supernatural dogmas — and those who intransigently uphold it. __________________ Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Last edited by toxic515; 10-17-2003 at 05:22 PM..