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Old 10-16-2003, 09:16 AM   #68 (permalink)
Astrocloud
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Quote:
Originally posted by seretogis
I hardly think of it as "accepted behavior" -- Jehovah's Witnesses have a bad reputation of doing the same thing. By and large, the average Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/etc doesn't openly attack other established religions.

Yet, with what amounts to an institutionalized prayer every day before class -the government is actively engaging in what Jehovah's Witlesses "have a bad reputation" for. This is first rate proselytizing.



Quote:
Originally posted by seretogis
From my experience in "real life" and on discussion boards such as this, the same is not true of the average Atheist. By the way, I am agnostic.
You are making a generalization based upon your own anecdotal evidence. This is weak at best but I'm curious where you are going with it.

My guess is the logic goes something like:

a) Atheists are big meanies who are always "striking out" at others.
b1) Therefore any response to this is just another example of an Atheist "striking out".
or;
b2) Therefore Atheists deserve what they get when they have their rights taken away from them.

Please tell me if I'm creating some sort of Straw man here. What was your point in making a generalization about atheists? I'm curious.



It's very fashionable to bash Atheists. This goes back centuries and is clearly stated in Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." As a non-theist in an increasingly secular society; I have seen atheists get personally verbally assaulted by religious people when we were invited to engage in a debate. I've known hundreds of Atheists, Nontheists and Secularists -not all of them are as obnoxious as you intone, yet many have been bashed.


Quote:
Originally posted by seretogis
How about, "it is voluntary and doesn't harm anyone." If someone doesn't want to say it, they don't have to. If someone wants to say everything except "under god", they can do that too. This is really a non-issue that's being blown out of proportion by a very vocal minority.


You say that the pledge is "voluntary"; you are deliberately ignoring the context of the pledge. When I was going to work everyday; I didn't stand with my colleagues and recite this pledge. The people who are reciting this pledge are little children. To voluntarily abstain from reciting the words "under god" -would be quite an advanced behaviour for a 7 year old. If you know anything about the psychology of group behavior; you know that the need to belong often outweighs little personal choices. People going against the norm of a group are often subjected to great amounts of psychological pressure to conform and fit in. (In fact this "need to belong" has been used as a powerful instrument of control by cults).

What the pledge amounts to is indoctrination. I'm fine with it -as long as it sticks to indoctrinating children into being good little patriots. Anything else is pushing it.
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