View Single Post
Old 09-21-2003, 04:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
Kyo
Crazy
 
Quote:
Originally posted by CSflim
So, now we can see how Egoists can evolve to cooperate, and do better in life than people who refuse to cooperate, and hence form the societal norms that we observe today.
Actually, I've been over the Prisoner's Dilemma quite a number of times - but always in a purely game theory context. I suppose this would be a case of me not being able to put two seemingly unrelated concepts together.

There are several points to make, however.
1) TIT FOR TAT does not take advantage of unresponsive strategies. For instance, if paired against a strategy that always cooperates, TIT FOR TAT will always score 3 points, when it could always defect and score 5. In real-world terms, I see this as being able to reliably 'dupe' the other party - something which corporations and governments are quite good at.
2) TIT FOR TAT also doesn't do very well against random strategies, because it inherently assumes that the other strategy is attempting to earn the most points. Humans are far from perfectly logical and are prone to indecision and random action.
3) TIT FOR TAT is also a victim of echo strategies. If you are paired with another TIT FOR TAT, except that it throws in a random defection, they will alternate between cooperate and defect forever - earning a lower average than the cooperation payoff (by alternating the 'sucker' payoff and the 'temptation' payoff)

To demonstrate a different point, however, consider Shubik's dollar auction. I have little doubt you've heard of it, but just in case, here are the rules:
a) A dollar bill is being auctioned, and will go to the highest bidder. Bids start at one cent, and each new bid must be higher than the previous one.
b) The second-highest bidder still has to pay - but for nothing!

This is obviously an extremely bad situtation to be caught in. Someone will obviously bid 1 cent. If you can get 99 cents of the deal, why not? But then, someone else thinks, "I could have that dollar for 2 cents." They bid 2 cents. But now the first bidder is in the unhappy position of paying 1 cent for nothing, so he bids 3 cents, etc. We keep going until the bid hits $1.00 even. But the previous bid was 99 cents. If he doesn't make a new bid, he will lose 99 cents. So he bids $1.01. And the game continues. Regardless of how high the number, the second-highest bidder will always be able to improve his position by almost a dollar by topping the current high bid.

This experiment was conducted at MIT, and it was found that a dollar could routinely be 'sold' for amounts much larger than a dollar - people were buying a dollar bill for $5!

Cooperation, in this case, would be to just let the first bidder take the dollar - for 1 cent. But that never happened.

The real-life analogy is 'investing too much to pull out.' Like waiting for hours in line for an amusement park ride, only to find out that part of the line was hidden and is actually twice as long as you thought it was. Or watching a movie that's terrible, but thinking you might as well finish it because you're almost done anyway. Television companies know about this syndrome, and tend to put more commercials near the end than at the beginning, because they know people are likely to want to finish the movie even if commercials are appearing at a rate of one after every scene.

On a different note, about spreading your seed rampantly - wild animals do it, and it seems to work for them. I don't know enough biology to form a more complex formulation, so if you can explain why it wouldn't have worked for humans, I'll take it at face value.

Last edited by Kyo; 09-21-2003 at 04:16 PM..
Kyo is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360