A few points I wanted to address in this post:
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Originally posted by shakran
yes, but to most people proficiency with a gun just means you can hit the deer more often than not.
I guess the reason I'd take MA over gun training is because gun training can give you a false sense of security.
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A dumbass (DA) is a dumbass is a dumbass and it makes no difference if said dumbass goes and buys a .44 magnum and thinks he's Dirty Harry or if he spends six months practicing his Karate and thinks he's Bruce Lee.
The DA will have a false sense of security either way and is likely to end up in serious trouble.
The flip is also true. A smart person knows when to retreat and when to use the options available to them.
As a gun owner and CCW holder, I know that there is only one justification for pulling out my weapon; I or someone around me is being threatened and there is the possibility of great bodily harm or worse.
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Most of the gun people I've talked to have asinine answers to the "what if" questions.
What if you're grabbed by an attacker late at night?
I'd pull out my gun and shoot him.
What if you're threatened by a guy with a knife?
I'd pull out my gun and shoot him.
What if you're held at gunpoint?
I'd pull out my gun and shoot him.
Guns give you two basic options. Threaten someone with the gun, and shoot someone with the gun. If the criminal isn't threatening your life, one of the options - shooting the SOB - goes right out the window. Well maybe it's my martial arts training coming out, but I don't believe in brandishing a weapon that for whatever reason I can't use. If I pull my knife on you, that means I intend to try to kill you with it.
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I admit I don't know whether to be offended by this or astounded.
Are you really saying that defending yourself with deadly force against someone who grabs you or pulls a knife on you isn't a good option??
Because to me, this isn't a game and if someone is willing to do something like this, I will assume that my life means nothing to them and that I am in deadly danger and that the best course of action is to end the encounter quickly and with decisive, overwhelming force.
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In fact, as stupid as it may sound, there have been some cases where a victim was threatened, the victim pulled
his gun to scare the attacker, the attacker got scared, pulled his own gun and shot the victim, and the killing was justified under the law because the attacker was now in fear of "death or great bodily harm." I think this is ridiculous, but that's the legal system we're working under.
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Yes, I'm sorry to say this does sound stupid.
I know of no cases or juristictions in the United States where this has happened.
The law in Colorado is quite clear on this. If the attacker is still in the process of attacking, they cannot justify pulling a gun and shooting you in "self defense". For this to happen, they would have had to break off their attack so that the person originally being attacked was no longer in danger and then began a new attack on the former attacker.
So if you have a link to a story where this actually happened somewhere, please provide it.
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I figure gun training would be supremely useful in a situation where someone is about to kill or seriously injure me or someone I'm with. In any other attack situation, the gun becomes useless because if I use it, I go to jail and rot for a long time. Again IMHO, this shouldn't be - we should approach this more like Texas does, which is the only state that figures if you get shot while robbing a house it's your own damn fault and not the homeowner's. Unfortunately, as long as the other states don't see it that way, and as long as I don't live in Texas, I'm not willing to go to jail just to avoid a beating.
However, I CAN use my MA training to get out of those much more numerous situations where my life isn't threatened but the guy's trying to hurt me.
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Some states use the "back against the wall" standard where a homeowner is expected to retreat until they can retreat no further and then they are allowed to use deadly force. Others, like Colorado and Texas allow a homeowner to use deadly force when a person enters their home in the commission of a felony.
But again, if you see me with my gun out, we are not playing a game. It is out because I see you as a legitimate threat to my personal safety and I am prepared to end that threat. If I can retreat and avoid the situation, I will. If I can talk my way out of it, I will.
But if you are intent on forcing a confrontation, be prepared to pay the price.