Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Agape Love, Righteous Indignation, and Christianity

chavos · 09-13-2003, 09:38 PM

interesting question....

when understanding how justice and mercy are to interact, i first read the prophets...this is where much of the language, actions, and traditions that Jesus will borrow/fufill/continue/be written about with comes from.

Their message is two fold: 1.that human kind is out of right relation with those around them and God. 2. that God will forgive them, but they must decide that it is important to live authentic lives.

They display anger, and they are filled with the Spirit to speak out against the crimes that the people are committing on each other. They see people who are the image of God being degraded and forgotten, and this grieves them terribly...and they use every emotion they have to convey the gravity of the situation to anyone who will listen.

Isaiah(Espeicially First and Third), Jerimiah, Amos, Hosea, Micah, all talk about these themes. it is more important to God that we show love to those around us than to burn calves in the temple or sing songs or make a show of our faith. the acts of compassion and mercy (what Matt 5 talks about) are more important than the temple. This is where John 2 comes in...people are abusing the faith of the community to make money, and Jesus puts a halt to this...using some of the same angry language that the prohphets used in their day. many times it is noted that there is anger from God when we turn away from the live God wants us to lead, but it's also then noted that rightious anger is quick to pass and be forgotten if we would only choose forgo our sins.

As for God turning heaven over to Satan...Jesus is advocating personal sacrifice to show love. If we are to assume the literal reality of the devil for a moment, that act would not be one of personal sacrifice, but one of mass destruction, condemning all of humankind to eternal torment. Not exactly a parallel....

That said, i think it is powerful to note that Jesus has come to proclaim forgiveness to all through His ministry and sacrifice...and perhaps if taken less literally, that the evil, the brokenness of the world has been given heaven already...it has been forgiven and allowed to be one with God again.

Reading Genesis, i think it's interesting to contrast Jesus with El Shabbatai, the Lord of Armies. One of the first conceptions of God that the Isrealites embraced, it is a pretty gruesome picture to look at...but i find it compelling that this idea of God is remade and subverted by the God of mercy, in both the Old testament and New.

09-13-2003, 09:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	interesting question.... when understanding how justice and mercy are to interact, i first read the prophets...this is where much of the language, actions, and traditions that Jesus will borrow/fufill/continue/be written about with comes from. Their message is two fold: 1.that human kind is out of right relation with those around them and God. 2. that God will forgive them, but they must decide that it is important to live authentic lives. They display anger, and they are filled with the Spirit to speak out against the crimes that the people are committing on each other. They see people who are the image of God being degraded and forgotten, and this grieves them terribly...and they use every emotion they have to convey the gravity of the situation to anyone who will listen. Isaiah(Espeicially First and Third), Jerimiah, Amos, Hosea, Micah, all talk about these themes. it is more important to God that we show love to those around us than to burn calves in the temple or sing songs or make a show of our faith. the acts of compassion and mercy (what Matt 5 talks about) are more important than the temple. This is where John 2 comes in...people are abusing the faith of the community to make money, and Jesus puts a halt to this...using some of the same angry language that the prohphets used in their day. many times it is noted that there is anger from God when we turn away from the live God wants us to lead, but it's also then noted that rightious anger is quick to pass and be forgotten if we would only choose forgo our sins. As for God turning heaven over to Satan...Jesus is advocating personal sacrifice to show love. If we are to assume the literal reality of the devil for a moment, that act would not be one of personal sacrifice, but one of mass destruction, condemning all of humankind to eternal torment. Not exactly a parallel.... That said, i think it is powerful to note that Jesus has come to proclaim forgiveness to all through His ministry and sacrifice...and perhaps if taken less literally, that the evil, the brokenness of the world has been given heaven already...it has been forgiven and allowed to be one with God again. Reading Genesis, i think it's interesting to contrast Jesus with El Shabbatai, the Lord of Armies. One of the first conceptions of God that the Isrealites embraced, it is a pretty gruesome picture to look at...but i find it compelling that this idea of God is remade and subverted by the God of mercy, in both the Old testament and New.