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Aias · 09-13-2003, 07:05 AM

It is interesting that youy posted this question. Have you, by chance, read Paradise Lost by John Milton? The story has a great interpretation of biblical scripture and the story of the Garden of Eden. It also sounds much like what your teacher was teaching, but without the freudian aspects.

God and the angel Raphael explain to Adam that he and Eve are the pinnacle of creation. Adam was made as the pinnacle of Reason, the wisest of all animals of creation and special because of reason. Eve was made as the pinnacle of beauty in all of creation, and that nothing else on all of the earth would be as beautiful or as wonderous as woman. Now it was Adam's job to Reason to Eve and to be her reason. Eve was to rely upon Adam for reason and understanding. (The text even notes that she enjoyed this. She could have sat in and heard from God or the Angel, but she much rather enjoyed hearing the news from Adam). Eve's job was to help Adam see the beauty and passion in the world. It was her job to open his eyes to the wonder of all of creation.

The problem in the story developed out of this idea, told by Raphael to Adam, "You [Adam] are a creature of reason. So enjoy Passion, but do not let it over-rule you." Eve eventually began to formulate ideas of her own about how the Garden should be kept (ie. more work could be done if they split up and work on different parts at a time). Although it should have been Adam's place to make these decisions he allowed his love (passion) for Eve to over-rule him and allowed her to make the decision.

Here is the problem: If Eve was a creature of beauty and Adam a creature of Reason then they both abdicated their roles to the other.

The same problem later happened when Eve ate the fruit from the tree and gave some to her husband WHO WAS WITH HER! Adam was right there with Eve, he knew that they should not have eaten the fruit. He allowed Eve the decision and abdicated his role as a creature of Reason.

The idea here is not that men should make decisions and women should just be objects of beauty! Many have mistaken the text as well as the bible for this. It was the abdication of these roles that lead to their fall.

You are right Inkriminator, the bible does point specifically to the fact that man is responsible for woman. (this does not suggest that man is GREATER than woman). Even the texts which suggest that wife should be submissive to the husband are often read falsly. The texts DO say that wives should be submissive to their husbands, but within the true context a better understanding of this can be acheived.

The bible details that wives (not women, but wives) should submit to their husbands as the church submits to Christ. This goes as far as to say that they allow their husbands the right of JUST leadership. It suggests that the husband should lead if he is CAPABLE of spiritual leadership. If the husband does not resemble christ in his leadership, then the wife is allowed to lead herself. Husbands (not men, but husbands) should be the head of the wife as Christ was the head of the church. What did christ do for the church? He lay aside his life as a sacrafice for the church. In this way a husband should lay aside his own life in sacrafice for doing what is JUST for his wife and family.

The scriptures portray this relationship of marriage and husband and wife quite often. No where in the bible does it EVER blame Eve for the fall, it always blames Adam. Even though Adam was not the first to eat, he is the one responsible for his wife (for keeping her safe from harm, even if it means telling her,"no.") Adam was the second to eat the fruit, but he was cursed before Eve. This suggests that "eating the fruit" was not Adam's problem, but rather disobeying and failing to be responsible for his wife.

If you look in the biblical creation and fall of man when God asks Adam what he has done he hides in shame. He then admits, but in the same sentence he blames Eve. This blame shift does not represent being a sacrafice for his wife. Were he a true sacrafice, like christ, he would have begged God to allow Eve's sin to fall totally upon him instead of shifting the blame.

So are men responsible for women? I do not think that the bible says that. I DO think that they scriptures show that we should love each other, forgive one another, and help each other out. People are ultimately responsible for their own lives. In a marriage, the bible suggests that the husband should care for his wife so much that she becomes his responsibility. If the husband does not care that much, than the two should not be married.

09-13-2003, 07:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
Aias Upright Location: by the waters of Babylon...	It is interesting that youy posted this question. Have you, by chance, read Paradise Lost by John Milton? The story has a great interpretation of biblical scripture and the story of the Garden of Eden. It also sounds much like what your teacher was teaching, but without the freudian aspects. God and the angel Raphael explain to Adam that he and Eve are the pinnacle of creation. Adam was made as the pinnacle of Reason, the wisest of all animals of creation and special because of reason. Eve was made as the pinnacle of beauty in all of creation, and that nothing else on all of the earth would be as beautiful or as wonderous as woman. Now it was Adam's job to Reason to Eve and to be her reason. Eve was to rely upon Adam for reason and understanding. (The text even notes that she enjoyed this. She could have sat in and heard from God or the Angel, but she much rather enjoyed hearing the news from Adam). Eve's job was to help Adam see the beauty and passion in the world. It was her job to open his eyes to the wonder of all of creation. The problem in the story developed out of this idea, told by Raphael to Adam, "You [Adam] are a creature of reason. So enjoy Passion, but do not let it over-rule you." Eve eventually began to formulate ideas of her own about how the Garden should be kept (ie. more work could be done if they split up and work on different parts at a time). Although it should have been Adam's place to make these decisions he allowed his love (passion) for Eve to over-rule him and allowed her to make the decision. Here is the problem: If Eve was a creature of beauty and Adam a creature of Reason then they both abdicated their roles to the other. The same problem later happened when Eve ate the fruit from the tree and gave some to her husband WHO WAS WITH HER! Adam was right there with Eve, he knew that they should not have eaten the fruit. He allowed Eve the decision and abdicated his role as a creature of Reason. The idea here is not that men should make decisions and women should just be objects of beauty! Many have mistaken the text as well as the bible for this. It was the abdication of these roles that lead to their fall. You are right Inkriminator, the bible does point specifically to the fact that man is responsible for woman. (this does not suggest that man is GREATER than woman). Even the texts which suggest that wife should be submissive to the husband are often read falsly. The texts DO say that wives should be submissive to their husbands, but within the true context a better understanding of this can be acheived. The bible details that wives (not women, but wives) should submit to their husbands as the church submits to Christ. This goes as far as to say that they allow their husbands the right of JUST leadership. It suggests that the husband should lead if he is CAPABLE of spiritual leadership. If the husband does not resemble christ in his leadership, then the wife is allowed to lead herself. Husbands (not men, but husbands) should be the head of the wife as Christ was the head of the church. What did christ do for the church? He lay aside his life as a sacrafice for the church. In this way a husband should lay aside his own life in sacrafice for doing what is JUST for his wife and family. The scriptures portray this relationship of marriage and husband and wife quite often. No where in the bible does it EVER blame Eve for the fall, it always blames Adam. Even though Adam was not the first to eat, he is the one responsible for his wife (for keeping her safe from harm, even if it means telling her,"no.") Adam was the second to eat the fruit, but he was cursed before Eve. This suggests that "eating the fruit" was not Adam's problem, but rather disobeying and failing to be responsible for his wife. If you look in the biblical creation and fall of man when God asks Adam what he has done he hides in shame. He then admits, but in the same sentence he blames Eve. This blame shift does not represent being a sacrafice for his wife. Were he a true sacrafice, like christ, he would have begged God to allow Eve's sin to fall totally upon him instead of shifting the blame. So are men responsible for women? I do not think that the bible says that. I DO think that they scriptures show that we should love each other, forgive one another, and help each other out. People are ultimately responsible for their own lives. In a marriage, the bible suggests that the husband should care for his wife so much that she becomes his responsibility. If the husband does not care that much, than the two should not be married. __________________ But I will seek the meadows by the shore: There will I wash and Purge these stains, if so I may appease Athena's wrath. Then will I find some lonely place, where I may hide this sword, beyond all others cursed, buried where none may see it, deep in earth.