Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - M-16 vs AK-47

Oblivion437 · 09-06-2003, 12:21 PM

That was your experience. Guys from US ordinance jammed 2 fistfulls of wet sand in the receiver, poured mud down the barrel, and loaded shitty as hell Steel-cased Wolf-type Lacquered ammo. It fired over a hundred rounds without a single hitch.

Also, if any of the parts were made in the US, China or Egypt, there's your problem right there. There aren't many small parts, so look for marks on the various parts upon field-stripping. If anything isn't in Cyrillic, there's your problem.

This isn't necessarily to say that the various countries do better or worse, but the Chinese Type 59 and Egyptian made rifles are made to very loose standards. According to Kalashnikov's original design, the weapon is of very high quality, just manufactured to that aim.

Now, for modern terms, we should compare it to the AK-108, it does, after all, use the same round.

Caliber:

AK-108/M-16: 5.56X45mm SS109

Weight:

AK-108: 4.4kg/9.7lbs -- M-16: 4.77kg/10.507lbs

Barrel Length:

AK-108: 415mm (16.5 inches) -- M-16: 508mm (20 inches)

Overall Length:

AK-108: 94.3cm, 70cm with stock folded. -- M-16: 1006mm

Factory Standard Rifling Twist:

AK-108: 1:7 -- M-16: 1:7, both right hand

Operating Method

AK-108

The AK-108 uses a modernized version of the Kalashnikov action. Kalashnikov had, since 1942, been working on recoil compensation devices to improve individual accuracy in fully automatic fire. In the AK-107/108 rifles, he fully integrated this system by the installation of the balancer piston. This piston is mounted in the opposite direction directly below the primary (operating) piston, and the secondary uses the excess gas that is unused by the piston (which would normally just disperse off the operating rod) and moving parts otherwise, and it pushes in the opposite direction to reverse the recoiling effect induced by the shot. Otherwise, it is identical to the previous Kalashnikov rifles. It is a gas operated system using a large piston. The bolt has 2 massive locking lugs which help ensure reliability.

M-16:

It uses a so-called 'stovepipe' mechanism in the form of a tube which directly bleeds gas and vents it straight into the moving parts of the receiver. While this obviously reduces weight and simplifies construction, it requires clean, high quality propellants and regular maintenance. In various rough combat zones, it seems the action will never achieve near-equivalent reliability. However, it allows for superior accuracy in both semi-and full auto (compared to the AK-47, though it uses a different round) and is generally in the hands of soldiers with clean ammo and proper maintenance tools.

Rate of Fire:

AK-108: 900rpm -- M-16: 800rpm

Effective Range:

AK-108: 500 meters -- M-16: 600 meters

My personal belief is, given the power of the AK-108 in giving the soldier a volume of fire advantage over the M-16A2, which is, in US Military use, fitted with a bolt-ratchet which stops the action after 3 shots. I still favor it over the full-auto capable A3 variant, despite the addition of a Weaver rail, as it is generally less reliable, despite excellent relibability with good maintenance, the AK-108 can withstand harsh environment conditions such as jungle or Desert hostilities for weeks on end, with little, if any effort to maintenance. To assure reliability in Afghanistan, it was required that soldiers field strip and clean their M-16 rifles 3 times a day. The M-4 Carbine was found to jam frequently even with good maintenance, had relatively poor killing power, undependable accuracy, and overall, gave a rather disappointing performance.

09-06-2003, 12:21 PM	#47 (permalink)
Oblivion437 Upright	That was your experience. Guys from US ordinance jammed 2 fistfulls of wet sand in the receiver, poured mud down the barrel, and loaded shitty as hell Steel-cased Wolf-type Lacquered ammo. It fired over a hundred rounds without a single hitch. Also, if any of the parts were made in the US, China or Egypt, there's your problem right there. There aren't many small parts, so look for marks on the various parts upon field-stripping. If anything isn't in Cyrillic, there's your problem. This isn't necessarily to say that the various countries do better or worse, but the Chinese Type 59 and Egyptian made rifles are made to very loose standards. According to Kalashnikov's original design, the weapon is of very high quality, just manufactured to that aim. Now, for modern terms, we should compare it to the AK-108, it does, after all, use the same round. Caliber: AK-108/M-16: 5.56X45mm SS109 Weight: AK-108: 4.4kg/9.7lbs -- M-16: 4.77kg/10.507lbs Barrel Length: AK-108: 415mm (16.5 inches) -- M-16: 508mm (20 inches) Overall Length: AK-108: 94.3cm, 70cm with stock folded. -- M-16: 1006mm Factory Standard Rifling Twist: AK-108: 1:7 -- M-16: 1:7, both right hand Operating Method AK-108 The AK-108 uses a modernized version of the Kalashnikov action. Kalashnikov had, since 1942, been working on recoil compensation devices to improve individual accuracy in fully automatic fire. In the AK-107/108 rifles, he fully integrated this system by the installation of the balancer piston. This piston is mounted in the opposite direction directly below the primary (operating) piston, and the secondary uses the excess gas that is unused by the piston (which would normally just disperse off the operating rod) and moving parts otherwise, and it pushes in the opposite direction to reverse the recoiling effect induced by the shot. Otherwise, it is identical to the previous Kalashnikov rifles. It is a gas operated system using a large piston. The bolt has 2 massive locking lugs which help ensure reliability. M-16: It uses a so-called 'stovepipe' mechanism in the form of a tube which directly bleeds gas and vents it straight into the moving parts of the receiver. While this obviously reduces weight and simplifies construction, it requires clean, high quality propellants and regular maintenance. In various rough combat zones, it seems the action will never achieve near-equivalent reliability. However, it allows for superior accuracy in both semi-and full auto (compared to the AK-47, though it uses a different round) and is generally in the hands of soldiers with clean ammo and proper maintenance tools. Rate of Fire: AK-108: 900rpm -- M-16: 800rpm Effective Range: AK-108: 500 meters -- M-16: 600 meters My personal belief is, given the power of the AK-108 in giving the soldier a volume of fire advantage over the M-16A2, which is, in US Military use, fitted with a bolt-ratchet which stops the action after 3 shots. I still favor it over the full-auto capable A3 variant, despite the addition of a Weaver rail, as it is generally less reliable, despite excellent relibability with good maintenance, the AK-108 can withstand harsh environment conditions such as jungle or Desert hostilities for weeks on end, with little, if any effort to maintenance. To assure reliability in Afghanistan, it was required that soldiers field strip and clean their M-16 rifles 3 times a day. The M-4 Carbine was found to jam frequently even with good maintenance, had relatively poor killing power, undependable accuracy, and overall, gave a rather disappointing performance.