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Originally posted by tisonlyi
dtheriault:
You made a bad choice. You found evidence to back your own prejudice and ignored the overwhelming body of accepted FACT.
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75 years ago, i'm sure a reasonably intelligent man could find 'facts' to back up home correction.
150 years ago, there were many 'facts' flying around to justify the inferiority of the negro.
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I hope you see the irony of these two comments together. I am always doubtful of of any fact that is spelled in all caps. Rather than screaming perhaps you should sight your support.
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giblfiz:
A Jewish person with a tolerance for barbarism, isn't there a word for that in today's world?
Zionist? (yes, my tongue is firmly in my cheek)
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I'm pretty sure that I was intended to ignore that, so I will
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Even for you chaps, if you go back to your history, it was more about identification and unity than cleanliness. The original circumcision was far, FAR less intrsuive(SIC), only taking a small section of the skin, which could easily be streched.(SIC)
That stretching took place in areas under greek control where athletes would perform in the nude, with Jews being ridiculed for their lack of a full foreskin. Some athletes underwent procedures like hanging weights and stuffing the inside, etc to restore them to nature and remove the insults and sniping.
Obviously, your ancestors didn't like that at all, decreeing that from then on, all Jewish boys would have a full circumcision.
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Well I can speak rather authoritatively on the issue of circumcision originally being a) far less intrusive and b) for Identification. These items are both fully false, it was clearly a full circumcision (Ugg, Ill dig through my Hebrew studies book for a ref. if you really care) And it was clearly not for ID and Unity... for one thing almost everyone in the region did it at the time, it was a health necessity. (A Journey through the Hebrew Scriptures by Frank S. Frick) As I pointed out in my post, if you don't have water to wash with circumcision becomes a major boon to survival. This is something I have studied formally and which I am rather certain of.
I will admit that I don't know much about the Israelite interaction with the greeks in greek controlled areas, its something I have never studied. I am quite frankly surprised to hear that Jews were allowed to compete at all.
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Which is utterly brutal, barbaric, and in your culture done without any kind of anaesthetic (SIC), unless i'm mistaken?
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No, we use the worlds oldest anesthetic, wine. Works rather well. It also appears from reading this discussion that our professional moyals seem to be much better at performing circumcisions than the average doctor.
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As for the tonsil and appendix points... irrelevant. diseased, dangerous, medically must be removed (currently - that will change at some point in the future, unless we wipe ourselves out.)
My hand point was valid, as there is NO VALID, RATIONAL, REASON TO REMOVE A HAND OR A FORESKIN AT BIRTH. (defects and complications aside)
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I find it surprising that you don't at least see how a foreskin bears more resemblance to a tonsil than to a hand. I assume that your simply being stubborn for rhetorical purposes.
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Religious reasoning, well, I don't agree. personally. The child should be left to make that decision at a later date, like, when he's in command of the full facts and at an age when he could possibly do something like, oh i don't know... MAKE A REASONED CHOICE.
Who knows, the little lad might just turn out to be an atheist who enjoys the aesthetics and pleasures of an intact penis.
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I find the idea that parents should be forced to raise their children as the culture sees fit rather than as the parent sees fit often on TFP. I imagine that you will be able to garner quite a bit of support for this sentiment. Suffice to say that my people have fought (or more often fled) and died for the right to raise our children as we see fit. The majority does not necessarily know how to raise children well, and the tyranny of the majority can be just as oppressive as the inquisition ever was.
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If he's lucky, which, being born to you, he wasn't.
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I don't take kindly to being insulted. Few here do. If you must insult me please make it either comical or subtle. You will note that I did not call you a "mean face" or any other expletive, nor have I criticized you directly.