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Originally posted by Nizzle
[B]Yes, this is a scientific paper outlining negative health effects. There are thousands of such research papers with impressive credentials on them that all say different things. This thread would not be very interesting if we sat here and posted them to each other all day. If you want to find similar studies that "prove" the side effects of marijuana are benign, then spend about 5 minutes on Google. There are a lot of doctors and research scientists who not only believe recreational use of cannabis is benign, but that it has positive side-effects in treatment of many illnesses.
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I don't have the time to sort out all the hightimes articles looking for something credible, this is a good project for you, as a person whose trying to convince me pot isn't bad.
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I think it is pretty clear that the "legalize crowd" does not feel either of these substances are as bad as you are suggesting. In addition, there are strong indicators that whether they are harmful or not, illegalizing them has far worse consequences. Here are a few ideas to toss around:
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I'm only telling you what I've heard from scientists and doctors. Those that I've listed are the ones saying it's bad, I'm saying it's illegal for a good reason.
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1. We are spending a massive amount of tax dollars to incarcerate drug offenders. The number is rising rapidly.
- According to ONDCP, federal spending to incarcerate drug offenders totals nearly $3 Billion a year -- $2.525 Billion by the Bureau of Prisons, and $429.4 Million by Federal Prisoner Detention. (Source:_ Office of National Drug Control Policy, "National Drug Control Strategy: FY 2003 Budget Summary" (Washington, DC: Office of the President, February 2002), Table 3, pp. 7-9. )
- Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions. (Source:_US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).
2. Having a substance which is illegal creates drug trafficing. If this substance were legal, controlled and taxed it would eliminate a large section of criminals who make ridiculous amounts of money peddling. Money made from the sale of marijuana (and saved by not filling the prisons with drug offenders) could be used to fund education and social programs. Perhaps drug use would even decline. And if not, we would still save a lot of money.
3. Cannabis has been illegal for decades, and its use is still increasing every day. Your War on Drugs is a failure.
4. Please study the history and consequences of prohibition for a realistic reason why making alcohol illegal would not be a rational move.
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1. Drug is a broad term, it can't be proven either way, but most likely the people who went to prison were not the average college kid who would take advantage of legalized pot. No, these are likely the dealers and people who take harder drugs repeatedly, the ones who should be in prison anyways. If pot were legalized, I don't think it would put a dent in that number.
2. If pot were legal there would still be illegal substances being smuggled into the U.S. If we're still going to be doing the same thing, paying the DEA, putting the heinous offenders in prison (you don't go to prison for minor possession in most states, just a fine in Ohio unless you're carrying over a certain amount, which would result in jail and a fine I believe. I'd be in favor of increasing the fine against offenders for around 5 thousand dollars and sending them on their way. Because it sends the message that it is the wrong thing to do, and is a more plausible means of enforcing the law. Texas marijuana laws are close enough to this.)
3. That's easy to say. What would the numbers look like if we weren't fighting though? Too hard to say, but I think we'd have far more dumbasses then we do now.
4. Duly noted, but the point is that when someone says alcohol is worse then pot, so it should be legal too is nonsensical.
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I really don't feel that whether it is harmful or not, and to what degree, is really the important issue. There are other questions: of personal freedom, the effects the War on Drugs has had on our economy and social structure, and the denial of medical marijuana to those who are known to benefit from it. These issues need to be balanced in order for me to consider your argument credible.
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Like I said, I don't care what they do as long as it doesn't affect me. When people destroy themselves it does affect me, and society as a whole. Their pursuit of happiness impedes mine, the war on drugs would continue whether pot was legal or not, and there are other drugs, superior ones in many cases, one could use instead of marijuana.
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I agree, there are probably some things about recreational use of cannabis that aren't that great. I also know that eating too much grease, salt and saturated fats is just as bad, if not worse. There are studies to "prove" this. Whether they should be illegal or not is not determined by that alone.
This is what I think:
- There are some harmful effects of chronic marijuana use
- There are some serious problems with it being illegal that need to be considered
- There are some benefits to making it legal
What I want is rational discourse that takes all these factors into account.
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The problem there is you've already made up your mind, and dissent will always be irrational.
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"Unless there are hard facts that come out in the near future that totally contradict the already proven effects of marijuana, and weren't from hightimes, then it won't happen."
This statement implicitly declares that anyone who disagrees with your "proof" has gotten it from High Times, and is therefore a pothead
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No it doesn't.
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I'm sorry, but it is the job of your employer to handle this situation, not the Federal government and the penal system. I don't want my tax dollars spent to police your workplace. This is what drug screening, effective management and employee performance reviews are for. And if your employer choses not to police this, then you should find another job. This is a free market, and no one forces you to work anywhere.
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That's true, which is partially why I quit. Telling on them simply wasn't enough. Drug tests can be beaten, and it's not hard to look busy when the boss comes by, it's harder then you think to stop this without going big brother on your employees.