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Originally posted by Phaenx
I posted all the proven cons with many impartial studies backing them up. These aren't theories, lets see what you got.
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Yes, this is a scientific paper outlining negative health effects. There are thousands of such research papers with impressive credentials on them that all say different things. This thread would not be very interesting if we sat here and posted them to each other all day. If you want to find similar studies that "prove" the side effects of marijuana are benign, then spend about 5 minutes on Google. There are a lot of doctors and research scientists who not only believe recreational use of cannabis is benign, but that it has
positive side-effects in treatment of many illnesses.
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There is also about as much proof alcohol is bad for you as there is marijuana. Why not ban alcohol since marijuana is so bad?
I've heard the reverse (alcohol is legal so pot should be too!) more than once from the legalize crowd.
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I think it is pretty clear that the "legalize crowd" does not feel either of these substances are as bad as you are suggesting. In addition, there are strong indicators that whether they are harmful or not, illegalizing them has far worse consequences. Here are a few ideas to toss around:
1. We are spending a massive amount of tax dollars to incarcerate drug offenders. The number is rising rapidly.
- According to ONDCP, federal spending to incarcerate drug offenders totals nearly $3 Billion a year -- $2.525 Billion by the Bureau of Prisons, and $429.4 Million by Federal Prisoner Detention. (Source:_ Office of National Drug Control Policy, "National Drug Control Strategy: FY 2003 Budget Summary" (Washington, DC: Office of the President, February 2002), Table 3, pp. 7-9. )
- Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions. (Source:_US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).
2. Having a substance which is illegal
creates drug trafficing. If this substance were legal, controlled and taxed it would eliminate a large section of criminals who make ridiculous amounts of money peddling. Money made from the sale of marijuana (and saved by not filling the prisons with drug offenders) could be used to fund education and social programs. Perhaps drug use would even decline. And if not, we would still save a lot of money.
3. Cannabis has been illegal for decades, and its use is still increasing every day. Your War on Drugs is a failure.
4. Please study the history and consequences of prohibition for a realistic reason why making alcohol illegal would not be a rational move.
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First things first. Prove marijuana is not harmful. Then that would almost be relevant.
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I really don't feel that whether it is harmful or not, and to what degree, is really the important issue. There are other questions: of personal freedom, the effects the War on Drugs has had on our economy and social structure, and the denial of medical marijuana to those who are known to benefit from it. These issues need to be balanced in order for me to consider your argument credible.
I agree, there are probably some things about recreational use of cannabis that aren't that great. I also know that eating too much grease, salt and saturated fats is just as bad, if not worse. There are studies to "prove" this. Whether they should be illegal or not is not determined by that alone.
This is what I think:
- There are some harmful effects of chronic marijuana use
- There are some serious problems with it being illegal that need to be considered
- There are some benefits to making it legal
What I want is rational discourse that takes all these factors into account.
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I don't recall ever generalizing people in favor of legalization, I have however made fun of potheads numerous times. If you would be so kind as to point this out to me.
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"Unless there are hard facts that come out in the near future that totally contradict the already proven effects of marijuana, and weren't from hightimes, then it won't happen."
This statement implicitly declares that anyone who disagrees with your "proof" has gotten it from High Times, and is therefore a pothead (I don't know anyone else who reads High Times). The assertation that there are no credible studies on the benefits of medical cannabis is pretty silly. There is a large volume of such information.
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It's is my business when someone goes around dumbing themselves down like this and I have to work with or for them.
I used to do production work at a computer joint with a few potheads who would regularly talk with each other rather then work, not come in to work, and produce shotty work when they did. This was a problem for me because we were expected to work as a team, or in other words I carried the whole lab the entire time I worked there.
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I'm sorry, but it is the job of your employer to handle this situation, not the Federal government and the penal system. I don't want my tax dollars spent to police your workplace. This is what drug screening, effective management and employee performance reviews are for. And if your employer chooses not to police this, then you should find another job. This is a free market, and no one forces you to work anywhere.
edit: fix typo