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Originally posted by miked10270
Incidentally (& speaking as a Class 1 police driver) each of the preceding posts was inaccurate in some way, with some of the advice proferred being outright dangerous.
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frankly, the same is true about this post i believe.
Hey Sledge,
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Double De-clutching, Clutchless Gearchange are NOT things to learn on a PC. Get somebody WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS to SHOW YOU.
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Its a great place to learn about it, if you know the info your getting is correct. Learning to do it out on the open road, on the other hand, isn't. Dont try this stuff next time your on your way home from work. Go to an empty parking lot. Or try it the next tiem your on the AutoX track. Dont ever learn new "race inspired" techniques with other people around that could get hurt.
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"Heel & Toe" ... It's VERY difficult (read IMPOSSIBLE) to do properly & effectively in a standard car unless you either have clown feet or have moved your accelerator pedal dangerously close to the brake pedal.
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It all depends on the person and the car. Almost every manual drive car i have driven, i have been able to heel-toe in it. It takes most of hte foot on the brake, and just the tip of the shoe on the gas. and i definately dont have "clown" feet. From my personal experience, it has been that most people could heel-toe in most cars, if they know how to do it well.
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It was a technique used in motor racing in days before hydraulic braking but it has ZERO relevance in modern road driving.
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Woah there.....i dont believe that is true at all. All the modern road-racing courses will tell you about left foot breaking and heel-toe and a few other techniques. All of them make you practice them and tell you to use them. SCCA in particular stresses you learn these techniques to aid in your races. Porsche club of America spends a considerable amount of time in their manual on these techniques. They have a purpose if you know how to do it properly. The key in a good lap times, is consistancy and smoothness. The smoother your transitions are, the faster you can take them. Heel-toe shifting allows for a smooth transition between breaking and acceleration.
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Firstly, there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to downshift while braking. There used to be, back in the days when brakes were mechanical (not hydraulic) and the performance of the brakes was pi$$ poor. Then downshifts were used to allow engine drag to help the braking process.
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So engine drag no longer happens? Downshifting while breaking is still useful to aid in breaking. Save some life on the break pads. Its not nearly as required as it once was, adn you dont *need* to do it in order to stop. But it will help slow you down, and it will save some life on the pads and aid in stopping. Its like using engine drag to moderate your speed goin down a hill. Its not needed...you could pop the clutch in and use the breaks, but its more convenient to use the engine, and will save your breaks. Same idea applies to downshifting while breaking.
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Secondly, YOU DO NOT BRAKE AND STEER SIMULTANEOUSLY!!! Unless you have ABS brakes (which will automatically reduce the brake effect) you're heading for a skid and a short trip into the scenery. your cars tyres have a limited amount of grip allowing you to brake OR steer violently, but not both at the same time.
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While its not reccommended, and istn' the ideal situation most drivers can get away with breaking and turning if they know the limits of their car. I know exactly how much break i can give my car under any situation before locking up the rears or having em kick loose. Again its all in the transition. Smoothly increase breaking, start turn, slightly letting of break....turn some more, start letting of the break and onto the gas and out of the turn...
Its all about knowing your car. More disasters are do to the driver not knowing what they can do rather than what the car is doing. For the amateur driver left foot breaking, heel-toe, and breaking while turning should never be done. Most people in tune with their car can do them without problems and should embrace most of the techniques.
Before you go and try this though, go find and empty lot or go to a track. make your car lock the breaks, take a turn too fast, and give too much throttle and make your back end spin out. Do this repeatedly. Learn exactly how much your car can take. Its all too easy to heel-toe your way into too many revs, too much torque and make the tires chirp or even break free.