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Originally posted by chavos
Lebell...thank you...i appriciate all your words.
CSFilm: I sincerely beleive you owe Lebell an apology. You've done nothing more than frame the debate in ways to ignore what he's saying, then taunt him when he won't play by your rules. It is quite clear that there is very little desire to "prove" God to you on the scientific evidence. It can't be done. But when you ask "why believe", as the title of the thread suggests...we try to tell you why. Experience. If you don't want to listen to that, then don't get in this kind of fight.
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All I am asking is what have you experienced that could only be explained by the existence of God?
I am not ignoring experiential evidence, simply because I haven't been given any.
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If you think that there is no role in experiential evidence...i suggest you try proving that love exists someday. You'll have a hell of a time if you can't cite someone's personal example.
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Love exists, because I can see it's effects. Do I think that it is some profound and mystical force? No.
Do I think that those experiencing love feel it to be "magical"? Yes I do.
Love has observable effects.
I consider religion to be similar in some ways to hypochondria.
Many people believe that hypochondriacs
lie about their symptoms. But in fact they are not lying. They truly believe that they have these symptoms.
Though they are experiencing these symptoms which don’t exist, They are absolutely real to
them.
How could you convince a hypochondriac that they are not actually ill? If you accept at face value their "experiential" evidence, then you will never get to the truth of the matter.
Hypochondria is a psychological disorder. It tends to manifest itself in people who are isolated or lonely. In essence they are looking for attention. Of course, they don't
know this. It is only deep in their subconscious that this "deception" occurs.
The way I see things:
Religion is similar. It manifests itself in people that cannot accept the facts about life. It is short and pointless. They experience things which comfort them. These things
seem real to them, but ultimately they are nothing but a bit of sleight of hand on the part of the sub-conscious..
This is why I am always very sceptical about accepting experiential evidence. What difference is your experiential evidence to that of the experiential evidence of a hypochondriac?
How many times have you heard a widow claim that "I felt Henry with me last night"?...of course she did, because she cannot accept the fact that he is dead.
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I'm rather sick of being told that i'm wrong if i follow life's teaching, and explore what life has told me. You can't possibly construct an actual proof that i'm wrong...the closest you might come is occam's razor, which is hella far from 100% sure. Your life doesn't suggest faith, as you interpret it. You argue from your experience, but shut people down when they offer theirs. That's not fair, and that's not debate.
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Like I said already, there are plenty of things that we cannot prove don't exist. Doesn't make them exist.