This is probably going to be a long post, I guess I had to sleep sometimes and now I've got a whole new page
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Anyway.
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Originally posted by krwlz
Forgive me, I cant seem to remember the names, but wern't there two English philosophers that represented the differant views on whether humans were innatly good or bad? Was it Locke and Hobbes?
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Locke and Demosethous if I'm not mistaken, Though I don't think that that is how you spell Demosethous name.
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On that note, how do you define good and bad?
Personaly, I do see a need for cops. Not everyone is bad, in fact most people are good. But there are those few real fucking dick heads that ruin it for the rest of us.
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I can agree that I see the need for cop in todays society. I also think that there are types of societies that don't need them. Right now though we do.
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Originally posted by rooster
yourneverthere why dont you go to your local police department and see if they have a ride along program. then you might get a better idea as to what a police officer goes through while pulling his duty shift. who knows you might even change your mind about them and find out they are just like u and i. are u judging every one of them on a whole are a particular police officer? do you think they judge you on your appearance?
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I Have been on ride alongs before, not since I was younger but I have. Me and friends decieded not long ago that we should go on more. I am judgeing everyone of them on a whole, not a particular officer. I'm not saying that they are all bad, or that they are all good, but just that they all, at some level think that they are better than me, they are 'just doing thier jobs' but no one's forcing them too, they decieded to do this job themselves.
And of course they judge me on looks, it's annoying, but it doesn't really matter.
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sorry for being such a ass earlier but i hear it all the time how bad cops are, and 9 out of 10 times it is out of the mouth of someone that breaks the law and gets caught and blames the arresting officer are the judge.
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Ya don't worry it's all good, like I said, I don't get mad easily.
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Origionally posted by lokiBack to the original question, you forget one thing. It is optional to listen to a police officer. By this i mean you have an option as per your reaction. You can listen to him, or ignore him, which may of course lead to further actions being taken against you. What im saying though is that it is not compulsory to listen to the police.
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Ya I guess it's optional, thing is with a docter if you don't take your medication you don't go to jail... It's optional the same way that you CAN rip your own arm off, or that you CAN wander drunkingly into the back of a van fill with fertilizer and fuel oil and get pushed over a cliff by a susicidal micky mouse.
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Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
BTW, every teacher or professor who I have asked has replied that the concept of a citizen's arrest is entirely fictional, and that all you can do is hold a person in place until the police get there. Theoretically, you can thorw them in the back of your car, read them their miranda rights, and drag them down to the station, write and sign a statement about what you saw them doing, but the police still have to do the paperwork and official procedures, and the guy isn't going to be too happy about being thrown in the back of a car by some random person and dragged down to the station.
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ya, I'm not to sure about in the States, this is what the Canadian Encylopeda says:
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Origianlly posted by Nowthen
Yourneverthere, I would like to repeat my question which was never answered, what exactly is it that you want to do that the police will so greatly impede you?
Outside of drug use (which is a whole other topic...) I am willing to bet that the reason you would be stopped doing these things is because that they have some direct or indirect means to harm or otherwise disturb other members of society.
I invite you to prove me wrong.
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I'm sorry nowthen, this turned out to be a huge thread and I read yours and said "I'll answer that" then skipped over it by accident. Anyway, I'd just like to do the things I do now but with freedom, I hate the feeling of dread that I get when I see a cop drive by even know I'm not doing anything, they menace, Aside from the drug thing there really is no specfic thing.
Thing is, when I get pulled over, as an example, I am posing no more or less of a direct or indirect thread to the society, They don't find any drugs on me, they don't give me a ticket, it's just becuase they think that they can.
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Originally posted by Mael
i just thought of this, but when "YNT" talks about ego, i think he's talking more about the fact that police have the audacity (sp?) to actually tell people what to do. there doesn't have to be any ego involved. if someone is a cop, they could easily go up to someone and tell them to move because they're loitering or pull them over for a traffic violation and no ego has to be involved. but the fact that they are willing to do it i think is what he has the problem with. just a thought.
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I'm not sure why the initials of my name are in quotes, but hey, I'm assuming you mean me... Have you ever told anyone to do something? ever been a camp councellor? or a father mabye? Had you not noticed that when you tell someone to do something, force your opinion on them, it's becuase you think your right? and if you think your right then you think there wrong. Your right, there wrong, your better then them. I think that that chain of logic is fairly clear, I guess i'm wrong though.
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i have a question to the people who think negitively about the cops and think that they have ego's and think they're better than you. if you could mark a little box on your taxes stating that none of your tax money would go to the police, and in return you would no longer be eligible to have any assistance from them, would you? it soudns like some of you would prefer a world without police, if you could get them out of your life, would you do it?
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Mael are you crazy? of course I would! that would be amazing, I'd just leave them alone and they could leave me alone. I'm a fairly non-confrontational person, I don't anger people very often except on this topic, so the police have never done anything good for me directly, I'm sure they have done many good things for me indirectly, like stop a murderer that might have killed me in the future, but if I could stop them from holding authority over me I would.
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originally posted by giblfiz1) Dad was a cop. Its not that they think highly of themselves in particular, its that there parents indoctrinated them with the idea that growing up to be a cop would be a good thing. The morality of the issue wasn't ever really deeply considered, they just want to make their family proud.
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They really never question the morality of the issue? They really never questioned what they do for a living. Is that really the type of person one would want police us, someone who not only doesn't question the morality of the law there inforcing, but doesn't even question the moral of there full time job?
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2) They are paragons of establishment. They like and love the government for some reason. They feel that the best thing they can do for the world is lend it as much of their own "might" as possible.
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Thats true, I guess people can get fixedated(sp?) on the fact that they think the government needs protection, I really don't have anything usefull to add to that, thats what you meant by paragon.
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3) They are drawn to power. Everyone is at some level. We all have some urge to want to be able to tell people what to do, and right what we see as wrongs. (perhaps that wrong is our own poverty, hence the whole concept of "cream") This should not be viewed all that negatively, its something that is intrinsically human
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I don't know if it is intrinsically human there unfortunatly is no way to prove what the basic nature of a human being is, good or bad, extending that, we can't prove if a human is basicly greedy, or basicly drawn to power, or whatever. The only way to prove that we are would be to have a child grow up alone, without any contributing factors, and even in that expiriment you wouldn't be able to find out the basic nature of humans becuase that poor child would probably die.
It's the old nature vs. nurture debate, thats what anarchy boils down to, could we have a society where good values are nurtured into people from birth so that in the end we don't need law, or will nature force us to be unruly, force us to distroy.
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Originally posted by miked10270
is it time for a cop to jump in yet?
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Of course miked, where have you been this whole time! I knew there must be at least one officer on this board.
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[/i] Originally posted by Lebell[/i] Saying the 'cop' is telling you what to do implies that it is his (possibly capricious and arbitrary) will being enforced.
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But lebell, the cop isn't a robot, he is enforceing the rules on purpose, no one is forcing him to do anything, so, it is his will.
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I'm sorry if I missed anyone.