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Moonduck · 08-14-2003, 06:23 PM

Gotcha, The_Dude. Understood.
---

M U, I'm not a Buddhist. I've never been trained to be a Buddhist. I am not good enough or strong enough of a person to be a Buddhist. It's a tough path and I am too caught up in Maya. I like my family too much.

I do, however, have friends that are Buddhists. Some of my professors were Buddhists. Hell, I have degree in the overall topic. I'm pretty sure that, even if I am not a Buddhist, my ideas aren't all that crazy.

Read up on Buddhism in India. It's very Zen to go into "practice not method" but there is a lot more to Buddhism than one sect. Buddhism encompasses the whole teachings of the Buddha, not just the practice of meditation. The Zen Buddhists have hit upon an awesome idea, and their aesthetic is truly inspiring, but I think you blind yourself by saying that Zen is all.

As to Zen being radical, again, refer to any text about Buddhism the way it is and was practiced in India. You will see that Zen Buddhism is pretty different. Heck, all you have to do is look at the artwork. Check out the Mahayan Wheel of Life paintings, they are quite easily accessible. Then compare them to the minimalist Zen art on the same subject. The Mahayanas speak of the Three Passions, the Eight trials, etc. A Zen artist simply paints a circle and calls it complete. Indian Buddhism, and there are a heck of a lot more Buddhists in India I would guess, have long and complex dissertations on various aspects of the Buddha's teaching. Zen has Koans.

I would be a Buddhist if I felt that I could be a good Buddhist. I am far too aware that I am mired in the illusory world. I am tied to my mortal trappings and will be until my kids are out of the house. Maybe I'll go through the process of becoming a proper Buddhist then. Until such time, the training I have and the learning I've gained are more than enough to keep my on the Path. Diksha weighs on me but doesn't rule me, and the Noble Truths are ever in my life.

You seem fired up about Zen, and I can dig that. If you take the steps to really do it right, it could be a wonderful thing. I have studied Zen extensively, written koans to expand my own awareness, and had papers passed aroudn and debated over by some of the most knowledgable scholars on the subject in my neck of the woods. I know enough to know how little I know, and I know enough to realize that I want to know more but am not ready yet. If you feel like Zen is your path, more power to you, but realize that there are centuries of Buddhism that existed before Ch'an became a reality in China, and quite a span of time after that before Zen was a reality in Japan.

08-14-2003, 06:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Gotcha, The_Dude. Understood. --- M U, I'm not a Buddhist. I've never been trained to be a Buddhist. I am not good enough or strong enough of a person to be a Buddhist. It's a tough path and I am too caught up in Maya. I like my family too much. I do, however, have friends that are Buddhists. Some of my professors were Buddhists. Hell, I have degree in the overall topic. I'm pretty sure that, even if I am not a Buddhist, my ideas aren't all that crazy. Read up on Buddhism in India. It's very Zen to go into "practice not method" but there is a lot more to Buddhism than one sect. Buddhism encompasses the whole teachings of the Buddha, not just the practice of meditation. The Zen Buddhists have hit upon an awesome idea, and their aesthetic is truly inspiring, but I think you blind yourself by saying that Zen is all. As to Zen being radical, again, refer to any text about Buddhism the way it is and was practiced in India. You will see that Zen Buddhism is pretty different. Heck, all you have to do is look at the artwork. Check out the Mahayan Wheel of Life paintings, they are quite easily accessible. Then compare them to the minimalist Zen art on the same subject. The Mahayanas speak of the Three Passions, the Eight trials, etc. A Zen artist simply paints a circle and calls it complete. Indian Buddhism, and there are a heck of a lot more Buddhists in India I would guess, have long and complex dissertations on various aspects of the Buddha's teaching. Zen has Koans. I would be a Buddhist if I felt that I could be a good Buddhist. I am far too aware that I am mired in the illusory world. I am tied to my mortal trappings and will be until my kids are out of the house. Maybe I'll go through the process of becoming a proper Buddhist then. Until such time, the training I have and the learning I've gained are more than enough to keep my on the Path. Diksha weighs on me but doesn't rule me, and the Noble Truths are ever in my life. You seem fired up about Zen, and I can dig that. If you take the steps to really do it right, it could be a wonderful thing. I have studied Zen extensively, written koans to expand my own awareness, and had papers passed aroudn and debated over by some of the most knowledgable scholars on the subject in my neck of the woods. I know enough to know how little I know, and I know enough to realize that I want to know more but am not ready yet. If you feel like Zen is your path, more power to you, but realize that there are centuries of Buddhism that existed before Ch'an became a reality in China, and quite a span of time after that before Zen was a reality in Japan.