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chavos · 08-06-2003, 10:14 PM

sixate, phaenx-you can say "all christians are homophobic" and use all the personal stories you like, but the problem is that you're wrong. Not only do a significant number of Christians themselves identify as GBLT (as witnessed by the link i posted...www.whosoever.org/index.shtml), but a significant number consider themselves allies. They are moved to state that all are welcome, and that the love that calls them to the church is not bound by sexual orientation. There is a significant amount of theological work done in this area, most famously by an other Episcopalian, Bishop J. S. Spong who wrote "Living in Sin?" The number of churches that identify as being welcoming to GLBT members is growing steadly in many denominations. The claim that the religion "hates" them is two sided. There are those who do harbor unreasonable and degrading hatred or fear towards GBLT persons...and do so in the name of Christ. But when the message is accepting, reconcling and steadfast love to "whosoever believes"...it's hard to claim that the religion inheiriently proclaims hatred to GBLT persons. (John 3:16).

There is so much more to Christian faith than a few verses... These were human works, written by human authors. It is impossible, IMO, to contest that. Whether there is hidden in the missteps and obscurity, a divine truth...that is a matter of faith. But it is quite clear that a reasonable interpretation of scripture does not place undue weight on a few scant passages. God's love and forgiveness are proclaimed over and over again...the condemnation of GBLTs takes but a few words. I'm inclined to see the real message in the majority, not the exceptions.

Moreover, most churches believe in continued revelation, that God is still expanding our understanding of our nature and of God. Overturning one legalism is hardly new to the church...this one just has a lot more emotion around it than not eating meat on fridays.

Lurkette: Amen...i second your assertion that it is not right to judge someone's belief system out of a sentiment of "knowing what's best for them." The movement for open acceptance of GBLT Christians is not self hatred adherance to a lifeless law, but a reflection of a deep and life giving faith. Your analogy to civil rights is very apt...the religion that was used to justify slavery was also the beginning of the faith that lead men and women to fearlessly proclaim their equality. Then, and now...there are prophets that call upon the Church to do what is right.

Druhim: Thank you...

08-06-2003, 10:14 PM	#32 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	sixate, phaenx-you can say "all christians are homophobic" and use all the personal stories you like, but the problem is that you're wrong. Not only do a significant number of Christians themselves identify as GBLT (as witnessed by the link i posted...www.whosoever.org/index.shtml), but a significant number consider themselves allies. They are moved to state that all are welcome, and that the love that calls them to the church is not bound by sexual orientation. There is a significant amount of theological work done in this area, most famously by an other Episcopalian, Bishop J. S. Spong who wrote "Living in Sin?" The number of churches that identify as being welcoming to GLBT members is growing steadly in many denominations. The claim that the religion "hates" them is two sided. There are those who do harbor unreasonable and degrading hatred or fear towards GBLT persons...and do so in the name of Christ. But when the message is accepting, reconcling and steadfast love to "whosoever believes"...it's hard to claim that the religion inheiriently proclaims hatred to GBLT persons. (John 3:16). There is so much more to Christian faith than a few verses... These were human works, written by human authors. It is impossible, IMO, to contest that. Whether there is hidden in the missteps and obscurity, a divine truth...that is a matter of faith. But it is quite clear that a reasonable interpretation of scripture does not place undue weight on a few scant passages. God's love and forgiveness are proclaimed over and over again...the condemnation of GBLTs takes but a few words. I'm inclined to see the real message in the majority, not the exceptions. Moreover, most churches believe in continued revelation, that God is still expanding our understanding of our nature and of God. Overturning one legalism is hardly new to the church...this one just has a lot more emotion around it than not eating meat on fridays. Lurkette: Amen...i second your assertion that it is not right to judge someone's belief system out of a sentiment of "knowing what's best for them." The movement for open acceptance of GBLT Christians is not self hatred adherance to a lifeless law, but a reflection of a deep and life giving faith. Your analogy to civil rights is very apt...the religion that was used to justify slavery was also the beginning of the faith that lead men and women to fearlessly proclaim their equality. Then, and now...there are prophets that call upon the Church to do what is right. Druhim: Thank you...