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Moonduck · 07-31-2003, 05:56 PM

"OK, not demanding and I see your point about everything getting silly - but I think that's philosophy for you!"

Absolutely! And I personally feel that engaging in Sophistry such as this is good practice for the real thing.

"I don't like the assumption that just because you know how other people are able to do amazing stuff means that you should be able to yourself."

Well, if you know how to do it, you should be able to do it. If you cannot do it, you, by definition, know some way to get to the point where you are capable of doing it.

"I mean, I'm quite aware of the processes by which a woman goes through the delightful process of giving birth - but I don't think (even if I knew a lot more) I could actually do so! I could modify myself, you say - but you've added in an extra stipulation."

How is it an extra stipulation? I gave no such limitations as saying that pure knowledge alone would allow you to do whatever you want. By design, perfect knowledge, in this particular iteration of the argument, does not equate to action, it merely equates to the potential for taking the correct action. An extra step is necessary in any action, and that is the act in itself.

"It's not simply the knowledge which would allow me to do something like that, but knowledge plus something else. And that's where I have a problem with your BIAV. Personally, I reckon it's going to remain bored and sober "

Why? If it knows how to get what it wants, why does it not simply take the steps necessary? Frankly, if you are omniscient, it is not so much a stretch to simply posit that you know what actions to take to attain the level of omnipotence (instant gratification omnipotence) that you are thinking of.

Lastly, of course it won't remain sober. It's a Brain-in-a-Vat, it has lackeys!

07-31-2003, 05:56 PM	#50 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	"OK, not demanding and I see your point about everything getting silly - but I think that's philosophy for you!" Absolutely! And I personally feel that engaging in Sophistry such as this is good practice for the real thing. "I don't like the assumption that just because you know how other people are able to do amazing stuff means that you should be able to yourself." Well, if you know how to do it, you should be able to do it. If you cannot do it, you, by definition, know some way to get to the point where you are capable of doing it. "I mean, I'm quite aware of the processes by which a woman goes through the delightful process of giving birth - but I don't think (even if I knew a lot more) I could actually do so! I could modify myself, you say - but you've added in an extra stipulation." How is it an extra stipulation? I gave no such limitations as saying that pure knowledge alone would allow you to do whatever you want. By design, perfect knowledge, in this particular iteration of the argument, does not equate to action, it merely equates to the potential for taking the correct action. An extra step is necessary in any action, and that is the act in itself. "It's not simply the knowledge which would allow me to do something like that, but knowledge plus something else. And that's where I have a problem with your BIAV. Personally, I reckon it's going to remain bored and sober " Why? If it knows how to get what it wants, why does it not simply take the steps necessary? Frankly, if you are omniscient, it is not so much a stretch to simply posit that you know what actions to take to attain the level of omnipotence (instant gratification omnipotence) that you are thinking of. Lastly, of course it won't remain sober. It's a Brain-in-a-Vat, it has lackeys!