View Single Post
Old 07-26-2003, 08:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
asaris
Mad Philosopher
 
asaris's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: Re: Re: Philosophers . . keen to learn.

Well, I might as well throw in another .02$

Quote:
Originally posted by feloniouspunk
I've always thought that the statement "Our thoughts shape reality" confused the issue a bit. Its not that our thoughts have any effect on reality itself, but rather that we each individually shape a reality for ourselves, based off of our senses and experiences.
This isn't quite right. The 'phenomenal' world (the world we create through the categories and the schemata) is real, it's just not reality in itself. This is why Kant spends so much time trying to prove the validity of the categories, among other things. If they are not valid, then the phenomenal world isn't real, and that's a consequence he wants to avoid.

Quote:
A side note on Kantian ethics: Kant believed that a man who did the right thing because he had a duty to do so even if he didn't truly want to was more moral than a man who wanted to do the right thing.
I don't think this is right (though it is the most common reading of Kant.) It seems to me that the important thing for Kant is whether or not we would act morally if we were not so inclined, so that, in order to show this more clearly, he uses cases where we are acting against our inclinations.

This can be seen from Kant's discussion of the 'holy will' later in the Second Critique. He writes that the ideal will is the holy will, a will that always acts according to the categorical imperative both out of duty and inclination. Not that any human beings have a holy will, but it is clearly set up as a goal.

Quote:
I'm pretty rusty on my Hegel. I would argue that Sartre wasn't pessimistic at all though. I think he's misunderstood by most philosophy students, especially those steeped in the analytical tradition.
Well, guilty as charged -- I was raised in the analytic tradition, though I've since left it. I suspect, though, that our disagreement here is simply regarding the use of the word 'pessimistic'. I only mean that Sartre does not think it possible to unify the 'in-itself' and the 'for-itself', while Hegel thinks that it is possible to do so. Whether or not Sartre is pessimistic overall is a different question. (Actually, my suspicion is yes here as well. See my sig file.)

Quote:
This isn't quite that simple. Plato had some pretty big ideas on his own. His major work, The Republic, was all him. He just continued using Socrates as a mouthpiece in his writing. There are a lot of important ideas about political philosophy raised in The Republic.
It's always unclear exactly what's Plato and what's Socrates in the early to middle Plato. I was taught, ages ago, that early Plato is pretty close to Socrates and middle Plato is a bit more muddled. But the Republic is middle Plato, so it still, as far as I know, bears Socratic fingerprints. "The Statesman" would be Plato's own, mature views on the subject.

Quote:
Aristotle was Plato's student as Plato was Socrates'. Aristotlian thought ruled the ancient and medevial worlds. Almost all of it is junk. He's still important to read though, because his ideas influenced so many. They can be seen influencing philosophers for 2000 years. Not too shabby.
Eh, not all of it is junk. His views on choice are as good as any I've come across, and his views on ethics better than most. But you're right that he's very important. He's really, more than Plato even, the founder of Philosophy as a discipline.

Quote:
I can tell by reading this bit here you're not a political philosopher.
Oh, don't dismiss me so quickly. I'm aware he's more complex than that, but I was trying to describe him in one sentence. And no, I'm not a political philosopher, but I'm more of a political philosopher than, say, an epistemologist.

Quote:
I've always been rather found of Sartre's refutation of Descartes' "I think therefore I am." Sartre said "You think, therefore you have thoughts."
I like Husserl's better. "I think, therefore there is thought."

Thanks felonius! It's nice to think about some of these thinkers I haven't thought about in a while.
__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche
asaris is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360