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Zeld2.0 · 07-23-2003, 10:09 PM

Wrong, they created the compromise for a reason because there were those that were very much FOR a strong federal gov't and others were very much FOR a strong state's rights gov't.

The constitution was finally agreed upon when the states all got what they wanted - bigger states wanted population representation, smalelr states wanted equal respresentaion, hence the compromise of the 3/5ths slave one (1 slave = 3/5 of a person) and the House of Rep. and Senate system of legislative.

The Federalists wanted bigger gov't, protective tariffs, and what not. The Democrat-Republicans wanted smalelr gov't, no tarriff, agrarian society based (well lead by Thomas jefferson then).

Ironically a lot of the parties have changed - one can say tarriff and pro-business Federalists are followed by Republicans now but at hte same timem any abhor big gov't.

The argument of states rights vs. federal gov't was fianlly settled by the civil war when it was clear the federals won.

IMO the problems started coming after all of that - the gov't was clearly the superior then and thus many could see Congress as simply being the place where the president gets what he wants or doens't - often by party lines.

The founding fathers were never quite sure what to make the gov't of - again many people (mainly the southerners at the time) favored a very weak Federal gov't - many northern Founding Fathers preferred a strong federal gov't.

This is what a lot of party lines have come from and because they made a great constitution but left it very ambiguous, we have had the Civil War and numerous constitutional arguments which means it can be often interpreted by any part any way.

The federal gov't no matter the party still has the control right now and thats the thing - no matter the intent of the constitution right now, almost everyone acknowledges that federal is more powerful than state.

And yes there is going to be corruption as always - the more money made the more corrupt. They get support (sometimes quite illegally) from business and the rich so they will vote their way - and hence many argue that the senate has become the rich man's club. In a sense its true but its nothing new - its been around for quite some time since the mid-late 1800's and honestly it won't change.

Sure I'd love to see one day one of the "people's presidents" kind of like Andrew Jackson was - poor and one of the common folk - but it ain't gonna happen because as time goes on the president will more and more be from the richer.

A revamp of the U.S. gov't will not be a easy one to say the least - there are many issues that over time relaly do stretch the limits of the consitution. There are thousands of things the founding fathers could never have imagined - and the constitution is still a document written 200 years ago in a very differnt world and land - and so yes, it can be outdated and in need of updating. But it probably won't happen.

07-23-2003, 10:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Wrong, they created the compromise for a reason because there were those that were very much FOR a strong federal gov't and others were very much FOR a strong state's rights gov't. The constitution was finally agreed upon when the states all got what they wanted - bigger states wanted population representation, smalelr states wanted equal respresentaion, hence the compromise of the 3/5ths slave one (1 slave = 3/5 of a person) and the House of Rep. and Senate system of legislative. The Federalists wanted bigger gov't, protective tariffs, and what not. The Democrat-Republicans wanted smalelr gov't, no tarriff, agrarian society based (well lead by Thomas jefferson then). Ironically a lot of the parties have changed - one can say tarriff and pro-business Federalists are followed by Republicans now but at hte same timem any abhor big gov't. The argument of states rights vs. federal gov't was fianlly settled by the civil war when it was clear the federals won. IMO the problems started coming after all of that - the gov't was clearly the superior then and thus many could see Congress as simply being the place where the president gets what he wants or doens't - often by party lines. The founding fathers were never quite sure what to make the gov't of - again many people (mainly the southerners at the time) favored a very weak Federal gov't - many northern Founding Fathers preferred a strong federal gov't. This is what a lot of party lines have come from and because they made a great constitution but left it very ambiguous, we have had the Civil War and numerous constitutional arguments which means it can be often interpreted by any part any way. The federal gov't no matter the party still has the control right now and thats the thing - no matter the intent of the constitution right now, almost everyone acknowledges that federal is more powerful than state. And yes there is going to be corruption as always - the more money made the more corrupt. They get support (sometimes quite illegally) from business and the rich so they will vote their way - and hence many argue that the senate has become the rich man's club. In a sense its true but its nothing new - its been around for quite some time since the mid-late 1800's and honestly it won't change. Sure I'd love to see one day one of the "people's presidents" kind of like Andrew Jackson was - poor and one of the common folk - but it ain't gonna happen because as time goes on the president will more and more be from the richer. A revamp of the U.S. gov't will not be a easy one to say the least - there are many issues that over time relaly do stretch the limits of the consitution. There are thousands of things the founding fathers could never have imagined - and the constitution is still a document written 200 years ago in a very differnt world and land - and so yes, it can be outdated and in need of updating. But it probably won't happen.