CSflim

These boards quite hotly debate religion vs. atheism. I am firmly of the belief that religious beliefs are simply irrational. Yet many people refute this claim, and try to turn scientific claims against science and thus scientifically "prove" that God exists. These people do not have blind faith, like those of creationists. They accept all of the tenants of science, but claim to know that God exists.

One thing I would say is that, if some part of scientific theory is incorrect, it does not prove the existence of God.
If things occur to which science has no explanation, it does not prove the existence of God.
If there are questions to which we do not as of yet know the answers to, it does not prove the existence of God.
If there are questions to which we can NEVER know the answers to, it does not prove the existence of God.
Just because we cannot objectively disprove the existence of God, does not prove the existence of God.

I would ask that people try their best to avoid using anti-logic in thier already unfounded arguments for the existence of God.

The most extensive example of a rational "proof" for the existence of God is the question: Where did we come from?

Science has so far traced this back to The Big Bang. Most rational people accept that this is what happened, and that after billions of years life evolved on earth to produce us. But that begs the question...
"where did this Big Bang come from? Science claims that all energy and matter must come from other energy and matter. This minute, incredibly dense particle, how did it come into existence?"
Well, to be honest we don't know.
"Ah-ha! you don't know! Therefore God exists! That settles it! End of Story"
Now wait a minute! Just because we don't know where it comes from, doesn't mean that a reasonable explanation doesn't exist! It is very difficult to make any observations, or calculations given the immense time and distance. It is conceivable that a theory could be formulated about what caused it.
"Ah! You said what caused it! Well ultimately something else must have caused that something to happen. Something external of our reality/universe"
That's fair enough, I can accept that line of reasoning.
"Gotcha! An intangible wholly-other force external of our existence. i.e. God"
Now wait a minute... I will admit to the existence of something outside of our own sphere of existence. something which would be completely unintelligible to us, due to the nature of our being, but why do you say that it is God?
"Well, that is what we are DEFINING as God"
Fair enough, you can call it a God, I will call it an unintelligible force.
"So we are in agreement then?
Not quite. I have a number of questions.

How do you know that this force is a creative force.?
We have seen how chaos can arise from simplicity, and how complexity can arise from chaos. A singularity could not be considered "complex" why the need for it to be specifically created

How do you even know that this force is a conscious force, never mind even creativity, why would it even be conscious?

How do you know this force is omnipotent?
Apart from the very beginning, there is no evidence that this omnipotent being has intervened in the workings of the universe in the slightest. what makes you so sure that he could, even if he wanted to?

How is this force all knowing?

How do you know this force loves you? Why would this omnipotent being care for an insignificant arrangement of fundamental particles?

How does the existence of this force, imply that you have been bestowed with a spirit/soul or anything else?

How the hell does the existence of this external force guarantee you to eternal life? How does the existence of an external "physical" force imply an afterlife?

How does this force provide ethical guidance?



And whatever you do, please don't reply with "it says so in the bible”[/i].

And if you are going to make some claim, or statement, please provide some proof, or explaination to back up what you say.

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