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Old 07-10-2003, 04:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
james t kirk
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Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.

Hitler made several mistakes that ultimately cost him victory in Europe with the breaking of his treaty with Stalin being high on the list.

But it was America's industrial might that kept England afloat which in turn served as the base for D-Day. Without D-Day and the liberation of France, Hitler would have been able to stablize his hold on the west and fight a one front war.

German equipment was superior to Russian equipment and the only thing that kept Hitler of from taking Moscow was lack of resouces combined with the Russian winter. If D-Day hadn't happened in '44, then Russia probably would have sued for peace by '45.
As usual, i disagree...

You are reading too many american written history books there friend lebell. America's "industrial might" helped in some regards but it certainly did not keep Britain in the war, nor did it have much if anything to do with the Battle of Britain. I think you would get a very strong debate on that one from some RAF and RCAF pilots who were there.

Sir Reginald Mitchell, the designer of the Supermarine Spitfire might disagree with that notion, as might Sir Roy Chadwick, the famous designer of the Avro Lancaster which could carry over 5 times the payload of the average B-17. Sir Sydney Camm, the designer of the Hawker Huricanne, the plane that won the Battle of Britain would also disagree.

You see, the Battle of Britain was truly a turning point in WW2. Hitler outgunned the RAF in every way, but his luftwaffe was no match for the determination of the RAF and the planes that they flew.

Please note, that of the three famous planes, the Spitfire, the Huricane (over 15,000 of them were manufactured) and the Lanc (over 8,000 manufactured), not one of them was designed or manufactured in the United States. Though Packard did produce the famous Rolls Royce Merlin engine under license in the USA and those engines did go into some of the aircraft (mainly the Canadian manufactured Huricanes and Lancasters). (Nice of Rolls to GIVE their technology to Packard wasn't it. And in doing so give the P-51 Mustang the power it needed to fly. The P-51 was a remarkable aircraft, but its american built engines sucked quite frankly. Then someone had the bright idea of shoving a British Rolls Royce Merlin in that cowling, and the rest is aviation history.)

I had the pleasure once of meeting a German gentleman who makes Kingston Ontario his home now, but used to fly in the Luftwaffe in a BF-109 during the war. He once told me a story that he knew that Germany was going to loose the war when one sunny afternoon over the channel, his squadron engaged in an aerial battle with a British squadron of Huricanes. One British pilot's plane was massively shot up, but rather than bail out to safety, the Brit turned his wounded plane back to hurl his last fight at the Germans. The wounded Brit was no match for the German 109's, and was promptly killed, but his actions left an indelible mark with my German friend.

With regard to the Russians...

The fact of the matter was that the Russians conquored Germany, and ultimatly Berlin itself. The Americans, British, and Canadians managed to barely enter Germany before it was over.

Stalin had been screaming for years for a second front, but only got one when he had things well in hand and the allies feared that Stalin would eventually take over the entire damn continent.

With all due respect to those who fought D day, and i mean that most sincerely, the Battle of Kursk made D Day look like a tea party. Stalingrad was even more fun.

The Russian winter definitely hampered the Germans, but to say that it somehow defeated the Germans is an insult. The Russians fought longer and harder than any other country. They suffered over 20 million killed in battle. When the couldn't hold a position, they destroyed it and moved back. At Stalingrad, the combat was the fiercest of the entire war. If Russian soldiers retreated, they were shot by Russians behind them. There was no surrender.

You can't help but admire that.
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