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miked10270 · 06-26-2003, 01:27 AM

Personally I am 100% AGAINST the death penalty.

Not because I believe in rehabilitation, or any finer feeling for the sanctity of human life. Simply because I don't trust ANY criminal justice system with something so fundamental as MY life if I were ever accused of murder.

Consider how the Criminal Justice system works in your country: The police agency is charged with investigating the crime, but in effect the investigating officers are under pressure to "get a result" whether that pressure comes from their senior officers, the media... In effect they do not "investigate", they seek to accumulate enough evidence against an individual or a group to justify bringing that person or persons to court. In this, cost is effectively no object and they are experienced professionals in obtaining and presenting evidence.

It has happened that forensic scientists have "helped" the police in the past, and is likely to happen again in the future.

Then consider the court process. Most countries use the "adversarial" system where opposing counsel argue for the persons guilt or innocence with a judge acting as a sort of referee. Who must be convinced of the ALLEGED perpetrator's guilt or innocence? A jury of his peers. This used to be 12 or 15 people who actually knew the accused, but in modern times it's a group of people who have been cynically described as "too stupid to avoid being dragged from their life and locked away for a week"!

The jury has NO legal training or experience. Anyone who does have experience of the CJ System,(Lawyers, Court Officials, Police Officers & their families, Etc...) are automatically disbarred from jury service. Many of them will go with what has impressed them most, and let's face it, the police & prosecution will put on a hell of a show. I remember one murder trial, an axe murder where the senior cop had the door, adjacent wall and floor where the murder took place, and still bearing axe marks in the door, wall and bloodstains on the floor transported bodily into the court. It wasn't ever used in the trial, but it was impressive as hell for the jury to look at! The accused was convicted.

Remember the Birmingham Six? The Guildford Four? Convicted of terrorist murder on "confessions" and "conclusive forensic evidence"? On the basis of the evidence which convicted them they should have been executed. They were innocent of the charges, in effect the CJ System set out to "get a result" for political and career reasons. Fortunately they weren't executed and were able to be released and compensated in some way for what was done to them.

In short, I find that the death penalty is too final. Once carried out there's no possibility of rescinding it. If a miscarriage of justice is subsequently discovered there's NO way to bring the accused back to life. In effect the CJ System has committed the very crime it has tried the accused for. In that case should the Police, Prosecutor, Judge & jury then be tried and executed for murder?

That said, the penalty for being found guilty of murder, life imprisonment should mean LIFE. The rest of the accused's life, not 10 years, which is the life of the accused's dog!

For those of you who still believe in the death penalty, tell me? Would YOU bet YOUR life against your Criminal Justice System?

Mike.

06-26-2003, 01:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
miked10270 Banned Location: Scotland	Personally I am 100% AGAINST the death penalty. Not because I believe in rehabilitation, or any finer feeling for the sanctity of human life. Simply because I don't trust ANY criminal justice system with something so fundamental as MY life if I were ever accused of murder. Consider how the Criminal Justice system works in your country: The police agency is charged with investigating the crime, but in effect the investigating officers are under pressure to "get a result" whether that pressure comes from their senior officers, the media... In effect they do not "investigate", they seek to accumulate enough evidence against an individual or a group to justify bringing that person or persons to court. In this, cost is effectively no object and they are experienced professionals in obtaining and presenting evidence. It has happened that forensic scientists have "helped" the police in the past, and is likely to happen again in the future. Then consider the court process. Most countries use the "adversarial" system where opposing counsel argue for the persons guilt or innocence with a judge acting as a sort of referee. Who must be convinced of the ALLEGED perpetrator's guilt or innocence? A jury of his peers. This used to be 12 or 15 people who actually knew the accused, but in modern times it's a group of people who have been cynically described as "too stupid to avoid being dragged from their life and locked away for a week"! The jury has NO legal training or experience. Anyone who does have experience of the CJ System,(Lawyers, Court Officials, Police Officers & their families, Etc...) are automatically disbarred from jury service. Many of them will go with what has impressed them most, and let's face it, the police & prosecution will put on a hell of a show. I remember one murder trial, an axe murder where the senior cop had the door, adjacent wall and floor where the murder took place, and still bearing axe marks in the door, wall and bloodstains on the floor transported bodily into the court. It wasn't ever used in the trial, but it was impressive as hell for the jury to look at! The accused was convicted. Remember the Birmingham Six? The Guildford Four? Convicted of terrorist murder on "confessions" and "conclusive forensic evidence"? On the basis of the evidence which convicted them they should have been executed. They were innocent of the charges, in effect the CJ System set out to "get a result" for political and career reasons. Fortunately they weren't executed and were able to be released and compensated in some way for what was done to them. In short, I find that the death penalty is too final. Once carried out there's no possibility of rescinding it. If a miscarriage of justice is subsequently discovered there's NO way to bring the accused back to life. In effect the CJ System has committed the very crime it has tried the accused for. In that case should the Police, Prosecutor, Judge & jury then be tried and executed for murder? That said, the penalty for being found guilty of murder, life imprisonment should mean LIFE. The rest of the accused's life, not 10 years, which is the life of the accused's dog! For those of you who still believe in the death penalty, tell me? Would YOU bet YOUR life against your Criminal Justice System? Mike.