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miked10270 · 06-24-2003, 10:11 AM

Hi there,

This fascinating post has raised some fundamental points about childcare...

Hi Bartgroks - no-one is suggesting that children are in some way sub-human, but under about 6 - 7 years old, children are completely self-centred. In freudian terms, Id develops by about 18 months, Ego by about 3 years, but Superego doesn't develope until about 6 years.

Hi Ratbastid, My own opinion is that neither negative or positive conditioning works in isolation. Both the carrot AND the stick must be used as appropriate. As you say, negative conditioning only tells the child what not to do - like running out into the road, pushing a sibling down stairs... While positive conditioning tells a child what to do, like saying please & thank you for a treat.

Just as an aside - One of my big things is courtesy. From about 18 months, if my kids want something then "Please" goes at the end of the sentence or they don't get the thing they want. Having got what they've asked for politely, I then expect "thank you" or the item gets taken off them & to get it back it's "please" again (and to keep it it's "thank you"). It sounds draconian but the pay off is when they approach someone outwith the family...

Hi Absorbentishe, I concur, as my kids get older then reasoning does replace corporeal punishment as they become able to understand reasoning. That said, the threat of a smack and the childs belief that I am willing to do so seems to act almost like the nuclear deterrent.

Many of you have talked of being hit using some instrument! Personally that is something I could not countenance. For me it is my flesh versus my child's so I feel it too. The use of a cord, belt or paddle implies that the parent is willing to inflict pain but does not want to experience the sting against their own hand in consequence. For me it implies a willingness to inflict more pain than they can stand themselves. It also implies some preperation and delay in the punishment wheras I believe that for young children the punishment should be immediate so that the transgression and the punishment is fixed together in their mind.

Hi Gov135, There are lws in england to deal with child abuse, Offences of "Assaulting, Ill-Treating, Neglecting, Abandoning, or Exposing a child in a manner likely to cause unneccessary suffering or injury to health". Speaking as a servong cop of 17 years, I would report somebody using an electrical cord or a belt or similar against their child and let the courts decide if this is "excessive force". I would not report somebody for using their bare hand to smack unless serious injury is caused.

Hi Raeanna74, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you offered your guidelines. As a parent control and consistency in discipline is everything, & reassuring the child that despite the smack they are still loved is vital.

Regards,

Mike.

06-24-2003, 10:11 AM	#27 (permalink)
miked10270 Banned Location: Scotland	Hi there, This fascinating post has raised some fundamental points about childcare... Hi Bartgroks - no-one is suggesting that children are in some way sub-human, but under about 6 - 7 years old, children are completely self-centred. In freudian terms, Id develops by about 18 months, Ego by about 3 years, but Superego doesn't develope until about 6 years. Hi Ratbastid, My own opinion is that neither negative or positive conditioning works in isolation. Both the carrot AND the stick must be used as appropriate. As you say, negative conditioning only tells the child what not to do - like running out into the road, pushing a sibling down stairs... While positive conditioning tells a child what to do, like saying please & thank you for a treat. Just as an aside - One of my big things is courtesy. From about 18 months, if my kids want something then "Please" goes at the end of the sentence or they don't get the thing they want. Having got what they've asked for politely, I then expect "thank you" or the item gets taken off them & to get it back it's "please" again (and to keep it it's "thank you"). It sounds draconian but the pay off is when they approach someone outwith the family... Hi Absorbentishe, I concur, as my kids get older then reasoning does replace corporeal punishment as they become able to understand reasoning. That said, the threat of a smack and the childs belief that I am willing to do so seems to act almost like the nuclear deterrent. Many of you have talked of being hit using some instrument! Personally that is something I could not countenance. For me it is my flesh versus my child's so I feel it too. The use of a cord, belt or paddle implies that the parent is willing to inflict pain but does not want to experience the sting against their own hand in consequence. For me it implies a willingness to inflict more pain than they can stand themselves. It also implies some preperation and delay in the punishment wheras I believe that for young children the punishment should be immediate so that the transgression and the punishment is fixed together in their mind. Hi Gov135, There are lws in england to deal with child abuse, Offences of "Assaulting, Ill-Treating, Neglecting, Abandoning, or Exposing a child in a manner likely to cause unneccessary suffering or injury to health". Speaking as a servong cop of 17 years, I would report somebody using an electrical cord or a belt or similar against their child and let the courts decide if this is "excessive force". I would not report somebody for using their bare hand to smack unless serious injury is caused. Hi Raeanna74, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you offered your guidelines. As a parent control and consistency in discipline is everything, & reassuring the child that despite the smack they are still loved is vital. Regards, Mike.