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Sun Tzu · 06-18-2003, 02:55 AM

These deaths were in not in combat situations, and only a small segment of a long and growing list. No terrorist held them up in front of themselves as some might hope. I guess they deserved to die as well huh crumbbum? They were all a bunch of terrorists, the really nasty ones may have even went up against tanks with their super dangerous rocks.

I thought you were past this. The fact is we could go back and forth like this for decades. That doesn’t change what the truth is. If it makes you feel a certain way to post daily obituaries; go ahead. As far as inferring I’m happy about shit like that your teetering on that edge once again. As far as inferring I thought that little girl was a Zionist; you said it not me.

Silwan-Live bullet in the chest-age 15- Nizar Ibrahim

Nablus- Live bullet in the head-age 5- Khalid Adli El – Bazian

Ramallah- Live bullet in the chest-age 16- Nizar Mahmoud Eideh

El-Burij-Live bullets in chest &abdomen-age12-Mohammed Jamal El -Dorra

Nablus- Heavy caliber bullet in the head-age 10- Samer Sameer Tabanja

Ramallah- Live bullet in the head-age 7- Mohammed Nabil Dawood

Salfeit -Nablus Live bullet in the head-age 6- Sarah AbdelAzim Abdel–Haq

Gaza – Bani Sohaila Live bullet in the back-age 9- Mohammed Yousif Abu Assi

Tulkarim-Live bullet in the heart-age 7- Mohammed Khaled

Bethlehem- Two live bullets in chest &abdomen-age 13 Mu’aiad O. Ali El Jawareesh

Gaza- Under rubble from missle Age 5- Mohammed MAhmoud El Howaiti

Gaza- Under the rubble- age 3- Ahmed Mohammed El Shawwa

Gaza- Under the rubble-age 2 months old Dalia Raed Mattar

Gaza- Under rubble from missle- age 4- Mahmoud Raed Mattar

Gaza- (bombardment)- age 2- Aymen raed Mattar

Gaza-(bombardment0-age 2- Ala'a Mohammed Mattar- 11

Tabaraq Jaber Oudeh, a 2-year old girl with cerebral palsy from Deir Al Hatab, Nablus. Tabaraq died from complications that ensued after she ran out of her medication and was prohibited access to medical treatment for several days.

---Norman G. Finkelstein received his doctorate from the Department of Politics, Princeton University, for a thesis on the theory of Zionism. He is the author of four books: Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict (Verso, 1995), The Rise and Fall of Palestine (University of Minnesota, 1996), with Ruth Bettina Birn, A Nation on Trial: The Goldhagen Thesis and Historical Truth (Henry Holt,1998) and The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering (Verso, 2000). His writings have appeared in prestigous journals such as the London Review of Books, Index on Censorship, Journal of Palestine Studies, New Left Review, Middle East Report, Christian Science Monitor and Al Ahram Weekly. Currently he teaches political science at DePaul University in Chicago.

Norman Finkelstein was born in Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1953. He is the son of Maryla Husyt Finkelstein, survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, Maidanek concentration camp, and Zacharias Finkelstein, survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, Auschwitz concentration camp. He dedicated his first book to his parents in which he wrote: "May I never forgive or forget what was done to them." His brothers Richard and Henry Finkelstein would like all visitors to this web site to know that the surviving family fully supports Norman's efforts to maintain the integrity of the history of the Nazi holocaust. May we never forgive or forget what was done.----

I would say aside from the multitudes of Jewish individuals you think don’t exsist that know better, this man may be just a little qualified to understand the words coming out of his mouth. You wont convince me or IMO anyone else he a radical fringe Jew.

Here is his perspective

To resolve what was called the "Jewish question" - i.e., the reciprocal challenges of Gentile repulsion or anti-Semitism and Gentile attraction or assimilation - the Zionist movement sought in the late nineteenth century to create an overwhelmingly, if not homogeneously, Jewish state in Palestine. (1) Once the Zionist movement gained a foothold in Palestine through Great Britain's issuance of the Balfour Declaration, (2) the main obstacle to realizing its goal was the indigenous Arab population. For, on the eve of Zionist colonization, Palestine was overwhelmingly not Jewish but Muslim and Christian Arab. (3)

Across the mainstream Zionist spectrum, it was understood from the outset that Palestine's indigenous Arab population would not acquiesce in its dispossession. "Contrary to the claim that is often made, Zionism was not blind to the presence of Arabs in Palestine," Zeev Sternhell observes. "If Zionist intellectuals and leaders ignored the Arab dilemma, it was chiefly because they knew that this problem had no solution within the Zionist way of thinking…. [I]n general both sides understood each other well and knew that the implementation of Zionism could be only at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs." Moshe Shertok (later Sharett) contemptuously dismissed the "illusive hopes" of those who spoke about a "'mutual misunderstanding' between us and the Arabs, about 'common interests' [and] about 'the possibility of unity and peace between the two fraternal peoples.'" "There is no example in history," David Ben-Gurion declared, succinctly framing the core problem, "that a nation opens the gates of its country, not because of necessity…but because the nation which wants to come in has explained its desire to it."

Crumbbum you think your going to educate me on what Zionism is? I’m not Jewish “fringe groups” or not it seems you have no idea how many Jews are against Zionism. Im going to ask you once again not to attempt to link a disreguard for human life as you rudely have done once again. I have a television set just like you sir. I hate hearing about innocent people dying, Ive seen enough death personally to last several lifetimes. Again you appear to be suggesting that I don’t.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf

http://www.rense.com/general35/against.htm

http://www.netureikartauk.org/neuberger.html

http://www.phr.org.il/phr/Pages/PhrHomepage.asp

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

www.jppi.org/

www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org

www.jvao.org/

www.petitiononline.com/JvO1/

www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0672.htm

http://www.nimn.org/

www.cam.org/~rsilver/jewspeakout.htm

www.eccmei.net/~eccmei/j/host/JATO.html

http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

www.meguiar.addr.com/jews_protest_Zionism.htm

http://www.netureikartauk.org/pictures.html

http://www.rhr.israel.net/overview.shtml

http://www.peacenow.org/shalom_achshav.html

http://www.nif.org/search.cfm

http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/

http://www.batshalom.org/

http://voteforusa.com/jewsforusa/

http://www.americanfreepress.net/04_...Against_Zioni/ rabbis_speak_out_against_zioni.html
http://home.t-online.de/home/Koch.He...%20Zionism.htm

www.codoh.com/zionweb/ziondark/zionoppdex.html

http://www.searchforjustice.org/

Tell them that Zionism is the same as Judaism. There are a few thousand Rabbis I’m sure would love for you to try and tell them what life’s all about.

You stated no one has the right to exterminate people, your damn right they don’t, or steal their land for that matter.

I don’t know why it’s taken me so long to understand why no one else has engaged in what I see as -------I’ll have to stop here, this is useless. Dead end. I don’t know if anyone followed this or the ones in the past, but the scenario speaks for itself. I can say I’ve learned two things what its like attempting to have a factual debate against a particular type of mindset, and there really is a radical fringe Jewish group out there, I just didn’t comprehend how radical.

I know truly I have to stay out of threads with this issue, because I don’t have within myself to sit back, read the material you post, and say nothing. I finally understand that no matter how much you deny, what people that don’t agree with you know, no matter how many factual history lessons you believe your giving, in the end it all speaks for itself, and apparently that’s real enough for you.

On a final note crumbbum nothing you post makes me laugh, there's nothing funny about it, and I'll as politely as possible stop there.

06-18-2003, 02:55 AM	#75 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	These deaths were in not in combat situations, and only a small segment of a long and growing list. No terrorist held them up in front of themselves as some might hope. I guess they deserved to die as well huh crumbbum? They were all a bunch of terrorists, the really nasty ones may have even went up against tanks with their super dangerous rocks. I thought you were past this. The fact is we could go back and forth like this for decades. That doesn’t change what the truth is. If it makes you feel a certain way to post daily obituaries; go ahead. As far as inferring I’m happy about shit like that your teetering on that edge once again. As far as inferring I thought that little girl was a Zionist; you said it not me. Silwan-Live bullet in the chest-age 15- Nizar Ibrahim Nablus- Live bullet in the head-age 5- Khalid Adli El – Bazian Ramallah- Live bullet in the chest-age 16- Nizar Mahmoud Eideh El-Burij-Live bullets in chest &abdomen-age12-Mohammed Jamal El -Dorra Nablus- Heavy caliber bullet in the head-age 10- Samer Sameer Tabanja Ramallah- Live bullet in the head-age 7- Mohammed Nabil Dawood Salfeit -Nablus Live bullet in the head-age 6- Sarah AbdelAzim Abdel–Haq Gaza – Bani Sohaila Live bullet in the back-age 9- Mohammed Yousif Abu Assi Tulkarim-Live bullet in the heart-age 7- Mohammed Khaled Bethlehem- Two live bullets in chest &abdomen-age 13 Mu’aiad O. Ali El Jawareesh Gaza- Under rubble from missle Age 5- Mohammed MAhmoud El Howaiti Gaza- Under the rubble- age 3- Ahmed Mohammed El Shawwa Gaza- Under the rubble-age 2 months old Dalia Raed Mattar Gaza- Under rubble from missle- age 4- Mahmoud Raed Mattar Gaza- (bombardment)- age 2- Aymen raed Mattar Gaza-(bombardment0-age 2- Ala'a Mohammed Mattar- 11 Tabaraq Jaber Oudeh, a 2-year old girl with cerebral palsy from Deir Al Hatab, Nablus. Tabaraq died from complications that ensued after she ran out of her medication and was prohibited access to medical treatment for several days. ---Norman G. Finkelstein received his doctorate from the Department of Politics, Princeton University, for a thesis on the theory of Zionism. He is the author of four books: Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict (Verso, 1995), The Rise and Fall of Palestine (University of Minnesota, 1996), with Ruth Bettina Birn, A Nation on Trial: The Goldhagen Thesis and Historical Truth (Henry Holt,1998) and The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering (Verso, 2000). His writings have appeared in prestigous journals such as the London Review of Books, Index on Censorship, Journal of Palestine Studies, New Left Review, Middle East Report, Christian Science Monitor and Al Ahram Weekly. Currently he teaches political science at DePaul University in Chicago. Norman Finkelstein was born in Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1953. He is the son of Maryla Husyt Finkelstein, survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, Maidanek concentration camp, and Zacharias Finkelstein, survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, Auschwitz concentration camp. He dedicated his first book to his parents in which he wrote: "May I never forgive or forget what was done to them." His brothers Richard and Henry Finkelstein would like all visitors to this web site to know that the surviving family fully supports Norman's efforts to maintain the integrity of the history of the Nazi holocaust. May we never forgive or forget what was done.---- I would say aside from the multitudes of Jewish individuals you think don’t exsist that know better, this man may be just a little qualified to understand the words coming out of his mouth. You wont convince me or IMO anyone else he a radical fringe Jew. Here is his perspective To resolve what was called the "Jewish question" - i.e., the reciprocal challenges of Gentile repulsion or anti-Semitism and Gentile attraction or assimilation - the Zionist movement sought in the late nineteenth century to create an overwhelmingly, if not homogeneously, Jewish state in Palestine. (1) Once the Zionist movement gained a foothold in Palestine through Great Britain's issuance of the Balfour Declaration, (2) the main obstacle to realizing its goal was the indigenous Arab population. For, on the eve of Zionist colonization, Palestine was overwhelmingly not Jewish but Muslim and Christian Arab. (3) Across the mainstream Zionist spectrum, it was understood from the outset that Palestine's indigenous Arab population would not acquiesce in its dispossession. "Contrary to the claim that is often made, Zionism was not blind to the presence of Arabs in Palestine," Zeev Sternhell observes. "If Zionist intellectuals and leaders ignored the Arab dilemma, it was chiefly because they knew that this problem had no solution within the Zionist way of thinking…. [I]n general both sides understood each other well and knew that the implementation of Zionism could be only at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs." Moshe Shertok (later Sharett) contemptuously dismissed the "illusive hopes" of those who spoke about a "'mutual misunderstanding' between us and the Arabs, about 'common interests' [and] about 'the possibility of unity and peace between the two fraternal peoples.'" "There is no example in history," David Ben-Gurion declared, succinctly framing the core problem, "that a nation opens the gates of its country, not because of necessity…but because the nation which wants to come in has explained its desire to it." Crumbbum you think your going to educate me on what Zionism is? I’m not Jewish “fringe groups” or not it seems you have no idea how many Jews are against Zionism. Im going to ask you once again not to attempt to link a disreguard for human life as you rudely have done once again. I have a television set just like you sir. I hate hearing about innocent people dying, Ive seen enough death personally to last several lifetimes. Again you appear to be suggesting that I don’t. http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf http://www.rense.com/general35/against.htm http://www.netureikartauk.org/neuberger.html http://www.phr.org.il/phr/Pages/PhrHomepage.asp http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ www.jppi.org/ www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org www.jvao.org/ www.petitiononline.com/JvO1/ www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0672.htm http://www.nimn.org/ www.cam.org/~rsilver/jewspeakout.htm www.eccmei.net/~eccmei/j/host/JATO.html http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/ www.meguiar.addr.com/jews_protest_Zionism.htm http://www.netureikartauk.org/pictures.html http://www.rhr.israel.net/overview.shtml http://www.peacenow.org/shalom_achshav.html http://www.nif.org/search.cfm http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/ http://www.batshalom.org/ http://voteforusa.com/jewsforusa/ http://www.americanfreepress.net/04_...Against_Zioni/ rabbis_speak_out_against_zioni.html http://home.t-online.de/home/Koch.He...%20Zionism.htm www.codoh.com/zionweb/ziondark/zionoppdex.html http://www.searchforjustice.org/ Tell them that Zionism is the same as Judaism. There are a few thousand Rabbis I’m sure would love for you to try and tell them what life’s all about. You stated no one has the right to exterminate people, your damn right they don’t, or steal their land for that matter. I don’t know why it’s taken me so long to understand why no one else has engaged in what I see as -------I’ll have to stop here, this is useless. Dead end. I don’t know if anyone followed this or the ones in the past, but the scenario speaks for itself. I can say I’ve learned two things what its like attempting to have a factual debate against a particular type of mindset, and there really is a radical fringe Jewish group out there, I just didn’t comprehend how radical. I know truly I have to stay out of threads with this issue, because I don’t have within myself to sit back, read the material you post, and say nothing. I finally understand that no matter how much you deny, what people that don’t agree with you know, no matter how many factual history lessons you believe your giving, in the end it all speaks for itself, and apparently that’s real enough for you. On a final note crumbbum nothing you post makes me laugh, there's nothing funny about it, and I'll as politely as possible stop there. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 06-18-2003 at 03:22 AM..