Thread: debt ceiling
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:45 AM   #184 (permalink)
aceventura3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derwood View Post
Debt talk damage has already been done - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com

Ace, the "nothing will happen" talking point is utterly false
This is the first sentence from the article you cite:

Quote:
As Washington dithers over raising the nation's debt ceiling, investor confidence is flowing away.
There are many different types of investors. Most serious investors simply factor in certain assumptions regarding what governments may or may not do. Then they allocate capital accordingly. They do that with "confidence".

First sentence from the 11th paragraph:

Quote:
The likelihood of an outright U.S. default Aug. 2 remains fairly remote.
Investors still look at US debt as the virtual risk free investment that it is. The rates and demand for US debt has not changed as a result of this alleged crisis.

Additionally, people are generally misusing the term "default". At this point when ever two or more people use the term, odds are they are thinking of different possible outcomes. The President has suggested that there is a possibility that the US won't pay interest on debt, that the US government won't pay Social Security - both things will not happen. There is no reason not to pay US obligations, and I believe the President has no choice. Shutting down some government services is not "default" in my book. This "crisis" is manageable, even given the worse case scenario.

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
So what's wrong with the Republicans? Why are they so unwilling to have a cat around?
Republicans and specifically the Tea Party faction of the Party has been trying to articulate what there concerns and issues are, the President, Democrats, and some Republicans are not responding to these issues. If I say Mr. President I don't trust you - I don't think you are serious about spending cuts and the response is something like - you don't care about people in need...no progress is made.

But the Tea Party faction in the House is only about 90 people. An alternative to getting Tea Party buy in is to propose a plan that will get moderate Democrat and moderate Republican support. Pelosi and Obama have yet to seriously try this option. They have not presented a plan for a vote that would force moderates to say "yes". Boehner is a moderate who is treated like he is in the Tea Party, he has no where to go other than to the far right because moderate Democrats are not willing to stand and fight with him. Obama is obsessed with fighting all Republicans. It is Obama who has set this tone.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that the Republicans will only trust their own plan? Or that Obama needs to simply talk at them more until they have some comfort in his words?
No. In order to earn trust from people like me, it takes action. Words have no meaning from a person like Obama. I stated many times that I think he is the equivalent of a snake oil salesman. In context, I would need a two step process. One, cut spending. Two, look at the revenue side. Obama wants to combine steps one and two - if I don't believe Obama is serious about step one, I would be a fool to agree to a combination of the two steps.

"We" have been saying the above since the inception of the Tea Party movement. No-one is listening.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
but i'm pretty sure that i'd demolish you in chess. cold-blooded about the game.

and now, back to regularly scheduled bickering...
I bet you are cold-blooded with the 6 year-old crowd.

Couldn't resist that one, I did try.
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