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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
How rational would it be to pass a bill on the debt ceiling without addressing anything else? It would be like green-lighting new credit without stipulating how that credit is to be used. It woud be like a blank cheque...but debt.
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The debt limit is totally meaningless.
1) If Congress commits to spending money, that commitment has been made regardless of some arbitrary debt ceiling.
2) The movement of actual debt based on spending commitments is not restrained by arbitrary debt ceilings or borrowing caps.
3) Is there any person on this planet that seriously believes that the US will actually default on debt or not pay social security benefits or not pay the military?
4) The President is Constitutionally obligated to pay the nation's obligations.
Given the above the whole debt ceiling issue is theater. The real fight is not the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling is being used by both sides to press a political agenda. Yes, democrats and Obama have a political agenda. And yes they are as inflexible up to this point as Republicans.
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No. How preposterous. Why is it that you come up with these silly ideas or stories whenever we talk about things you disagree with?
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Why is what I presented preposterous but singling out people who own a successful business is not? Seems to me it is simply a matter of perspective.
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Do you ever see me going on about how it would be great if we could cut spending by replacing the military's munitions with purple glitter paintballs? 
Why don't you address the real issue?
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The real issue is spending not tax rates.
---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by boink
why do taxes need to be thought of as this heinous punitive thing ?
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In my view they don't have to be. Obama is the one who wants to use the tax code for things like redistribution, social engineering, and punishing certain types of behavior. Taxes should be reflective of the real costs to society, nothing more and nothing less in my view.
---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Derwood
Obama cant negotiate/leverage with a group that says "no" to anything he proposes, even if it's what they want.
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Hence, we are in the situation we are in. The Tea Party with no real power was able to obtain the leverage. Poll after poll allegedly shows the public supports Obama. Most of the media reports positively reflect Obama's view. It is obvious that people won't let the US default, they have said it. Yet it is the President who can not get a deal done. Sounds like incompetence to me. Obama is clearly in over his head. Democrats should have selected Clinton. We kind of know what she would do, at least through Bill he stated what he would do, press the issue by ignoring the debt limit and have Congress challenge him in court. And he has been there before.