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Originally Posted by roachboy
ace is merely repeating the tea party talking points.
there is no crisis.
ok well maybe there is but it's all obama's fault.
we should instituted more of the same bullshit economic policy based on bullshit economic theory that created this mess in the first place.
the dismal record of neo-liberal ideology in producing anything beyond increased class disparities is the fault of a recalcitrant reality that, as we all know, always has a liberal bias.
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More of this "neo-liberal" vagueness. Are Tea Party people "neo-liberals"? Are we responsible for the current state of affairs? For example, did the Tea Party pass and then extend the Bush tax cuts? Or was it some other people that got us in this mess? Are the Tea Party people the same as these other people? Are Tea Party people simply Republicans? What about the times when Republicans were not in power? Do non-Republican bear some responsibility? Are Republicans the same as non-Republicans? Are these non-Republicans Democrats? Are Democrats neo-liberals too? Perhaps you can tell me, other than you, who is not a neo-liberal? Give me one current name! If you do I will never bring this issue up again, promise!
---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
ace makes some good points on a fundamental level. What's disagreeable is his opinions of the situation.
It being Obama's failure should Republicans turn down a sensible plan is a difficult thing to swallow. Especially considering ace calls it a situation of Obama's own device and that Obama is single-handedly responsible for it, as an individual. A tough thing to swallow.
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O.k., here is what I would do and why, if I believed I needed the debt limit increased.
First, establish negotiation leverage. I tell Congress starting in January with the State of the Union Address. Pass a clean debt ceiling increase bill. Without that clean bill, there will be no discussions regarding spending cuts, budgets, taxes or anything else.
Second, use the leverage. Regularly talk to the American people stating that the consequences of failing to increase the debt limit is unreasonable and that the best course of action is to address spending, taxes and budgets without the threat of a government shut-down or default. Polls show most people agree.
Third, introduce the legislation I want passed in both the House and Senate. Get something specific on the table.
Fourth, hold Congress accountable. If the legislation is held up, make Congress explain it to the American people.
Fifth, after passage of the debt limit increase move on to other issues....
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Of course, I doubt ace would admit Obama's plan is anywhere close to sensible. Tax increases are absolutely out of the question. It's either low taxes or no deal. The lone wolf Obama is dropping the ball.
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Will you join me in a movement to initiate a special tax on cat owners. I understand that about 10% of American households own a cat, and if these folks can afford a cat, I am certain that they can actually afford to help real live people, especially the children. Why should cats live in luxury, while some people are actually dieing of old age. It is not fair. We clearly need to spread it around a bit, don't you agree?
---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by dippin
Correctable in the long term? Sure.
Correctable in the short term, as in the next couple of years?
There is a reason why spending is described as "discretionary" vs "mandatory."
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Sorry, I don't know what that reason is. Are you my wife posting in the other room? She often tells me when spending is "mandatory" and I often disagree, but I almost always keep that to myself. Something to do with that old saying about if momma ain't happy...
- but the point is just because some people won't like it cut doesn't make it "mandatory".
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Sure, we could slash pensions of everyone receiving pensions in half right now, but that would likely create a number of legal challenges, on top of a massive drop in revenues, that would likely only exacerbate the problem.
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That is why I say this is manufactured. Congress created these obligations and therefore we are obligated to make good on our promises. The US will not default. It is the President's obligation to pay our bills. The debt ceiling is truly meaningless. On one hand they commit to making payments and on the other they commit to restrict their ability to actually make the payments. Isn't that some kind of an oxymoron, or is it a system created by morons? Either way, the President's responsibilities are clear.