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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
You know who you forgot to mention? All the guys NOT staring a hole in your head. And there are going to be times where you assume that he's staring at you when he's not.
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Of course, I am not talking about them. That's not what this thread is about.
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[sigh] This thread is full of assumptions, extreme positions, gross generalizations and arguments designed to have no room for compromise. I love it!
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Designed? I love it. Thanks, Jazz!
Where have I shown no room for compromise?
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Look, not all men are like this. All men certainly aren't like this all the time. Just like not all women are "duckfacing in bikinis". I'm pretty sure, MM, that you've never been photographed that way. Am I right?
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No, never in my life have I duckfaced. And never in my life have I posted a provocative photo of myself and then reprimanded someone for responding to it. But on that note, I don't walk around town with photos pasted to my forehead, either.
I have not said anything about all men, all the time. I have mentioned discussions that I have seen here - lighthearted, humorous discussions - in which the same patterns of thought and response to women has been admitted to freely and openly. I realize that coming from me, at this time, it is not as palatable. But if you simply cannot accept that what is goofy and innocent to you can, at times, be experienced differently by women then I think you're being ridiculous. Maybe even "hysterical."
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Back in the stone age, before the internet, there was the wolf whistle. It still exists, but it's effectively the analog version of "nice pics". Some guys use it. I've only used it for humor. I've never posted "nice pics" when the pictures in question weren't posted to gather exactly that result. Many of those posts were in threads created by you, MM. So does that make me a bad guy? A rapist? Scum? An asshole? (oh, wait, I am that one.)
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Um. Ok, so let's rehash something here. I haven't said anything about photographs on this thread. If I post an erotic picture of a woman here at TFP, whether it is myself or some babe from 1932, it is meant to be exactly what it is. It is not flirtation - there is nothing subtle or nuanced about it - it is an invitation to respond. I don't think I've ever been ambiguous about that. You're bringing it up reminds me of past TFP conversations, though, past conversations and supplecow.
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Some guys are assholes. So are some women. Not everyone is. So this whole thing about all men - or all straight men over the age of 12 or whatever group most of the women in this thread find so threatening - is just a plain old fallicy. Sure there are bad guys. There are bad ladies too. But just because some dickhead in a restaurant eyefucked you when you're with your daughters, I'm not guilty of anything simply because I have a penis.
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Jazz, please show me where I have said you are guilty of anything.
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A few years ago, I was in a restaurant with a few clients. From my perspective, an attractive woman marched up to the table out of the blue and said "I'd appreciate it if you'd stop staring at me while I'm eating with my family" to one of the guys at the table. He asked if her name was Jane Doe - it was and it turns out they went to high school together. The point is that it's sometimes very hard to know what's going through someone else's head. Maybe he is eyefucking you. Maybe he's trying to figure out if he knows you from somewhere. Maybe he's wondering why someone hasn't told you that you have bird shit on top of your head. There are multiple possibilities and you're assuming that you know which is correct.
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I don't think you are in a position to tell me that I don't know when I am being "eyefucked." Women know. Most women know when a guy has approached them for a legitimate, practical reason and when they are being approached under the guise exploring other possibilities. So what? Jesus. And if a woman hasn't been skilled at this by a certain age, then I haven't met her.
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That's awful specific. How often did you find yourself in Mississippi in the 80's?
But, yeah, I kinda agree.
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Actually I was referring more to the '50s and '60s. When I was very young in Atlanta, my father worked for the telephone company and he could dial into party lines. They would be echo-y and chaotic with many people carrying on different conversations at the same time. But I don't think rape potential has anything to do with unsolicited flirtation.
And, you know, that's what it really comes down to. Unsolicited. Sometimes I just don't want to be bothered with that telemarketer calling, sometimes I don't want to talk to my mom because she's going to ask me a lot of annoying questions (I love you, mom!), sometimes I don't want to answer my door when I look through the peephole and there's a kid with a box of stuff at his feet because he's going to try and sell me something, and sometimes I don't want a stranger to approach me with the intention of "getting to know me" or to "asking me out" or "picking me up." Sorry, fellas, but sometimes you're just not at the top of the list of things I have undying patience for. It doesn't mean I don't like you. Chin up and all that.
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You know why I approach strange women in public? Because they have something I want. It's almost never what's between their legs, and it's almost always information - like "how do I get to Point A?" or "what time is it?" or "where'd you get that cool thingy?" How, as a man, am I supposed to know if someone, regardless of gender, doesn't want to talk to me unless I talk to them first? Why do you insist that it's bad for me to ask half the population questions? Are you really that unfriendly? No one is obligated to respond to anyone else in this social setting, so assuming that every conversation is designed as a pants-remover is so incredibly sad that it's circled back through the spectrum to become funny. If you're content being without human contact, that's fine, but I couldn't stand it, either personally or professionally. By your logic, I'm committing a social crime every time I cold-call a potential client with a vagina. That's clearly just untrust.
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I have more human contact every day than you can possibly imagine.