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thirtiesgirl · 07-16-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramus

I am curious about something. If people who do not know each other are to avoid any form of contact, social interaction, anything at all - how does this attitude help peoples plural begin to know each other? Are all strangers to be the eternal enemy? And what allows an unknown into the sacred circle of the known? What magic ju-ju is performed to allow a person to say hello to another without getting the f-off freeze out that seems to be the preferred position of thirtiesgirl and her ilk?

I'm sure I'm not the only one on the planet who's heard of internet dating, am I right? If you want to make a connection with someone, there are plenty of people on dating sites willing to chat with you, meet up with you, engage in casual sex, etc. They're on the dating site because they want to be contacted. They're not just hanging out at the bus stop, book store, coffee shop, neighborhood bar, wherever, in their own space. They've made it public that they're looking for a connection. This is not true of women in any other situation. We're not asking to be approached, unless we give you a signal that we'd like to be approached or it's ok for you to talk to us. If you make the choice to approach a woman and she doesn't want you to approach her, be prepared for the assumption that you're not the "nice guy" you assume yourself to be to cross her mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramus

If I get the vibe from a person that I am a freaky piece of sh*t when all they know about me is that I am breathing air in their vicinity, then I get the idea that they are an ignorant piece of sh*t and deserve nothing but my disdain and my disgust at their self-righteous arrogance.

I don't approach people in public - never have and probably never will. But if I get the f-off freeze face from someone then they have declared themselves outside of the social niceties circle. Don't drop your grocery bag or dump your purse near me, handle your own doorways when burdened with packages, and just keep standing on that bus/subway instead of taking my seat. You want me at a remove then you've got it. That attitude really flips my switch. Burns my biscuits. Gets my goat.

Be an island. But understand that if you go around pissing on every little wave that has the ill fortune to brush against your sacrosanct shores you will create circles of ill-will around you, and that sort of negative crap cannot be good for anything at all.

Yeah, yeah - you are a rape magnet. Every single guy who makes the mistake of saying "nice day" on a nice day is actually planning on ramming you deep and hard while you shriek in horror. Every fellow who hasn't been graced by your personal dispensation allowing him the rare privilege of smiling at you is a foul beast who should be caged.

Sheesh. And I thought I had social issues.

Do I really need to explain that women are a marginalized group, kramus? Women are the subject of FAR MORE sexual assaults than men. You are in the position of privilege, not being in a marginalized group. When you act on that privilege, by expecting a response from a woman you've randomly approached in public, you're stepping over boundaries that you choose to ignore.

Phaedra Starling expresses it better than I could. Quoted directly from her article:

Quote:

To begin with, you must accept that I set my own risk tolerance. When you approach me, I will begin to evaluate the possibility you will do me harm. That possibility is never 0%. For some women, particularly women who have been victims of violent assaults, any level of risk is unacceptable. Those women do not want to be approached, no matter how nice you are or how much you’d like to date them. Okay? That’s their right. Don’t get pissy about it. Women are under no obligation to hear the sales pitch before deciding they are not in the market to buy.

The second important point: you must be aware of what signals you are sending by your appearance and the environment. We are going to be paying close attention to your appearance and behavior and matching those signs to our idea of a threat.

This means that some men should never approach strange women in public. Specifically, if you have truly unusual standards of personal cleanliness, if you are the prophet of your own religion, or if you have tattoos of gang symbols or Technicolor cockroaches all over your face and neck, you are just never going to get a good response approaching a woman cold. That doesn’t mean you’re doomed to a life of solitude, but I suggest you start with internet dating, where you can put your unusual traits out there and find a woman who will appreciate them.

Are you wearing a tee-shirt making a rape joke? NOT A GOOD CHOICE—not in general, and definitely not when approaching a strange woman.

Pay attention to the environment. Look around. Are you in a dark alley? Then probably you ought not approach a woman and try to strike up a conversation. The same applies if you are alone with a woman in most public places. If the public place is a closed area (a subway car, an elevator, a bus), even a crowded one, you may not realize that the woman’s ability to flee in case of threat is limited. Ask yourself, “If I were dangerous, would this woman be safe in this space with me?” If the answer is no, then it isn’t appropriate to approach her.

On the other hand, if you are both at church accompanied by your mothers, who are lifelong best friends, the woman is as close as it comes to safe. That is to say, still not 100% safe. But the odds are pretty good.

The third point: Women are communicating all the time. Learn to understand and respect women’s communication to you.

You want to say Hi to the cute girl on the subway. How will she react? Fortunately, I can tell you with some certainty, because she’s already sending messages to you. Looking out the window, reading a book, working on a computer, arms folded across chest, body away from you = do not disturb. So, y’know, don’t disturb her. Really. Even to say that you like her hair, shoes, or book. A compliment is not always a reason for women to smile and say thank you. You are a threat, remember? You are Schrödinger’s Rapist. Don’t assume that whatever you have to say will win her over with charm or flattery. Believe what she’s signaling, and back off.

If you speak, and she responds in a monosyllabic way without looking at you, she’s saying, “I don’t want to be rude, but please leave me alone.” You don’t know why. It could be “Please leave me alone because I am trying to memorize Beowulf.” It could be “Please leave me alone because you are a scary, scary man with breath like a water buffalo.” It could be “Please leave me alone because I am planning my assassination of a major geopolitical figure and I will have to kill you if you are able to recognize me and blow my cover.”

On the other hand, if she is turned towards you, making eye contact, and she responds in a friendly and talkative manner when you speak to her, you are getting a green light. You can continue the conversation until you start getting signals to back off.

The fourth point: If you fail to respect what women say, you label yourself a problem.

There’s a man with whom I went out on a single date—afternoon coffee, for one hour by the clock—on July 25th. In the two days after the date, he sent me about fifteen e-mails, scolding me for non-responsiveness. I e-mailed him back, saying, “Look, this is a disproportionate response to a single date. You are making me uncomfortable. Do not contact me again.” It is now October 7th. Does he still e-mail?

Yeah. He does. About every two weeks.

This man scores higher on the threat level scale than Man with the Cockroach Tattoos. (Who, after all, is guilty of nothing more than terrifying bad taste.) You see, Mr. E-mail has made it clear that he ignores what I say when he wants something from me. Now, I don’t know if he is an actual rapist, and I sincerely hope he’s not. But he is certainly Schrödinger’s Rapist, and this particular Schrödinger’s Rapist has a probability ratio greater than one in sixty. Because a man who ignores a woman’s NO in a non-sexual setting is more likely to ignore NO in a sexual setting, as well.

So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone. If you pursue a conversation when she’s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone. And each of those messages indicates that you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights.

For women, who are watching you very closely to determine how much of a threat you are, this is an important piece of data.

The fifth and last point: Don’t rape. Nor should you commit these similar but less severe offenses: don’t assault. Don’t grope. Don’t constrain. Don’t brandish. Don’t expose yourself. Don’t threaten with physical violence. Don’t threaten with sexual violence.

Shouldn’t this go without saying? Of course it should. Sadly, that’s not the world I live in. You may be beginning to realize that it’s not the world you live in, either.

Word.