Thread: Jerusalem
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Old 06-17-2003, 07:19 PM   #72 (permalink)
Sun Tzu
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Location: The Event Horizon
Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are persons whose normal place of residence was PALESTINE between June 1946 and May 1948, WHO LOST BOTH THEIR HOMES AND LIVELIHOOD as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. It also covers the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948.


”Oh, and you're right, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people (in terms of them being a separate and distinct nation from other arabs). A palestinian, by the UN definition, is any arab that is descended from someone WHO LIVED WEST OF THE JORDAN BEFORE 1948 for 2 years or more. That's it. While a very small minority of the palestinians are actually descended from arabs who had been in the land a long time, the vast majority are descended from arab migrant workers and laborers who went to the land seeking employment, after Jewish immigration, and their development of the land, started creating economic opportunity.” These people were not native to the land. THE PALESTINIANS ARE MADE UP OF EGYPTIAN, SYRIAN, JORDANIAN, AND LEBANESE ARABS. They do not have a unique history, and they never identified themselves as a distinct people until after 1967. They never demanded statehood while Egypt occupied Gaza, or Jordan the West bank. Arafat himself is an egyptian. I will refer to "the palestinians", even though the term originally was used for the jews. They are indeed, however, not a distinct people.

crumbbum although I know its counterproductive to assume I know what goes on in the minds of other people: I'll assume this time that it wasnt you that changed the wording, but infact you got it from another source that you felt was based on facts. Incase you don't catch what Im referring to or in the event you would possibly downplay this a just a couple words I'll point it out to you. This is the root of what Im saying: when a group; any group; whether they be caucasion, black, hispanic, Catholic, Jewish, Russian, American, etc becomes tunnel visioned to a cause the beneficial only to them they see their way as THE way. Whatever steps that need to be taken to insure this will be even if that s means changing history. With the switching of two words an entire belief is created thats simply not true.

From Palestine to anything west of Jordan. That would give substance to the possibility of PALESTINIANS ARE MADE UP OF EGYPTIAN, SYRIAN, JORDANIAN, AND LEBANESE ARABS. Where did you get your version of that definition? Could you please provide a source for that? Im going to make another assumption: your either going to ignore what I've just presented; rationalize it in a way that doesnt address what Ive presented; or maintain that the UN is irrelevent anyway eluding to what I interpret as a global conspiracy against Israel. Again that is what I interpret I wont paste your posts referencing this, but I have plenty if you need a refresher. If somehow Ive appealed to your since of reason with this example, can you even begin to see the inherent danger in this? What would be the motive behind such actions?

You took my link to the ZOA out of context- I was referring you to a video that was hosted on that site of a lynching in Ramallah. I wasn't trying to get you to check ou the site itself because I know you wouldn't take it seriosuly.
No I didn’t. For one I told you I had that video (Arafats war rallies). I was stating everything I saw you putting as a source was 100% pro-Zionist, it was the same point I was making now. How am I taking that out of context?

Also, I don't advocate the sudden expulsion of the Palestinians.

Well sir. . . . please excuse me for seeing these statements as being hypocritical. Then again you do put the word “sudden” in there. I don’t know if that was an attempt at being sly with words or it truly doesn’t mean anything.

“Oh, and the Palestinians are not indigenous.”

“I do not support a Palestinian state west of the Jordan.”

“Since it was the Palestinians who walked away from the peace talks, and who have overwhelmingly supported truly sickening terrorism against innocent people, I think that it is their side that should pack up and leave.”

“The arab world is not only humongous, but in many places very underpopulated. The world should set up a palestinian state somewhere else, where both parties then will be able to live in peace, without the risk and overwhelming likelihood of all out war.”


Ofcourse you don’t want them thrown out, it sounds like nothing of the sort.

You still have not given facts to invalidate my points.

You either ignore the sources I have posted or quickly write them off following with stance the Israel will have more accurate documentation than anyone. Are you attempting in some form or fashion to convey to me that there is no reason at all; Zionists (not Jews-big difference) would have to promote stance that historically, and factually do not concur with records that exsist outside of Zionist founded creators. (Like what I presented from the records of the British Mandate compared to what you provided. After tracking down the source you even stated the numbers were off; yet 2 sentences later you maintain Israel's records are factual.

If there is anything inside of you that would allow you to step back and look at this from an outside position; it difficult for me to understand how the obvious could not be observed.

You ask for facts you know Ive posted them, you know I provided sources; in some cases even pictures of the original records opposed to just typing them. Yet you say the same thing I see you stating with everyone that has debated you. You either ignore what they said, or confidently seemingly correct them with sources you maintain are the facts and nothing but.

As for you de-legitimizing my statements about the history about the region, I can back up everything I say with sources, statistics, etc. I am not saying anything here that isn't based on historical fact.

OK crumbbum heres the electronic stage and its all yours; provide sources that the world, not a small group of it sees as historical fact. I'm open eyes, ears, and mind. Please post as many sources you see as being factual and I will research them with a completely open mind and neutral position.

Weve already seen where some of Bards sources can lead to, Im sure you dont rely on him anyway.

Heres a few sources of mine used in our conversations whose facts you either ignored, or felt werent factual.

http://www.un.org/ha/index.html

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/index.html

www.hmc.gov.uk/
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Last edited by Sun Tzu; 06-17-2003 at 09:53 PM..
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