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Old 05-14-2011, 06:34 AM   #51 (permalink)
filtherton
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Location: In the land of ice and snow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunxpress View Post
Why would anyone believe in something they cannot prove? Since faith is a belief that is not based in proof, wishful thinking, is all it can be.
Faith is a mental projection toward a positive outcome. Assuming the elevator will stop at the floor you have designated does not come down to faith, but probability. I have no faith in machines. They break and get old, I don’t have faith that it won’t happen on my watch, but I will assume that it won’t, based on probability. In the 1000 times that I have ridden the lift to my 3rd floor office, this machine has, thus far, been reliable. Based on past experience, which is not proof but probability, it will stop on the floor I programmed it to. Mathematical statistics suggest to me that it probably won’t break down, but the fact that it has the potential to eliminates any undying faith I might have mustered up for my own security purposes.
People believe in things they cannot prove all of the time. It isn't that big of a deal. It's something that's actually required to function in the modern world. All this "probability" talk is just a fancy way of saying that you have faith without actually saying it. Without a formal probabilistic model in mind, you're just co-opting the language of probability and projecting it over a framework of faith in order to obscure the presence of that faith.

Here's where I see faith in your statement: I think you have faith in your ability to generate accurate predictions via extrapolation. You have faith that a series of abstractions based on arbitrary axioms can accurately predict reality.

Statisticians take matters on faith all of the time. All statistical models have assumptions. Frequently, these assumptions can not be verified with certainty and so must be taken on faith (and diagnostic tests).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
i think this discussion leads to even greater question

If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value can there be in having faith?
presuming there a God, is it reasonable to believe we could be punished for not having it?

Richard Dawkins says 'Faith is one of the worlds greatest evils.'
(*nudge* .... interesting he uses the word evil? )

I know that A Lion, A Witch and a Wardrobe was written heavily based on the religious idea of faith!
I don't think the problem with faith is that it can lead to false beliefs. All ways of making sense of the world can lead to false beliefs. The problem with faith is that it can't always be easily modified via rational argument - it isn't very adaptable. There are some places where this is good. I have faith that my children love me. So that when they yell "I hate you!" because I won't let them do some thing that they really want to do, I don't actually think that they hate me.
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