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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
It's not universally the case. Just mostly so. We can talk about specific systems that seem to be balanced enough to try to emulate if you wish. Maybe even how to improve them further.
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That remark was admittedly hyperbolic. My bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
I think it's important not to overlook Sweden and, to an extent, Germany, mainly for their strong social democratic aspects.
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Indeed, in fact I rather meant Sweden rather than Switzerland in that convo.... I was tired. Leaving out Germany was just... Germany is probably in my opinion the most successful socialist country i can think of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
(Sorry for the info dump.)
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No way... gives me perspective on a subject i know little about. Let me give you the chance to do it again. What of the HUGE talking point here in America in which the Canadians are spilling over the border to utilize our amazing health system due to multi-year waits and substandard care. (Not that i believe this for a second since I've been using our system for my whole life and here you have to see 6 different doctors to even be sure your not getting screwed or treated by an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
I think any pure system is less stable than a comprehensive mixed one that is managed year to year, election to election.
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Okay. Are we not essentially... eventually... inevitably headed there if we continue to progress? I am of course saying that i find the other option and its philosophy to be the opposite of progression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
I don't think revolution is required. I think changes will come when the system starts to fail on a wholesale level. When people start to panic, they vote for changes they see as meaningful, especially if these changes emulate systems that are proven to work (universal heath care, for example).
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I hope that is right, that you are right... I think the revolution is education. An education system that is as well funded as our defenses, where books and the info in them arent determined by the biggest buyer (texas), where we have a social side to it that not just educates knowledge of the general studies but of coping skills, living skills, etc. One that can at a bare minimum that is needed, compensate for any home life. One that gears students towards their wants and talents. That isnt utopia and if you do that, the kind of educated and well adjusted students you would get would greatly reduce the populations of our prisons, welfare systems, non senior based aid needs and simultaneously by a majority vote for more of this kind of change. At least thats my prediction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
It's about doing what you can to benefit the population as a whole. Sometimes this requires biting the bullet. In the end, it also requires some hindsight to see what works and what doesn't.
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But why must it be utopia to imagine a world where the majority works for the satisfaction of being successful in their trade or their profession for the sake of creation and self worth and knowing that their contribution is, like all others, a deciding factor... instead of one of the exact opposite kind? Bringing up the earlier point that its just as possible to be centered more to that side than this side as it is now.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
the whole money thing is a non-issue to me. I don't see the sense or the practicality to abolishing money. It's a medium of exchange. I don't see money as the problem. If anything, the profit model is the problem.
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I can agree with this to some extent. I guess for me, I cant help but see greed and capitalism as a drug and a junkie who, despite their best intentions to only do just "a little", just "enough to get by, to function", are really just addicts who will eventually die from their addiction, the only question is when/how long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
The real challenge of this is how the lines between the state and the private sector have become blurred.
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Yes yes, the great corporatocracy making a real industry of imperialism. They think Obama is going to make a socialist evil empire but in reality its all of them playing for the same outcome. "The Company" is the ultimate bureaucracy and the ultimate goal. Private money in public elections and judge assignments and the electoral.
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Why not the Coop/council model for distribution rather than the state? A compulsory short term limit political and coop/council system?
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Originally Posted by ASU2003
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I too have been looking into these. i cant make a full determination yet though.
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I still need to respond to roachboy, always so late and no time... homework... bah