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Originally Posted by Willravel
Can you name some historical free market economies (free market by your own definition) that were highly successful; that is, more successful than mixed systems with similar circumstances?
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The US economy during the 1800's and early 1900's.
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What were the largest or most significant contributing factors in these systems that you believe lead to the success?
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The ability to profit from one's labor, initiative, creativity, resourcefulness, planning, sacrifice, courage, etc.
---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
What are you basing this on? It's a theory. You think this would be the case. A purely free market economy is a pipe dream. It would be impossible to implement, even over a long-term strategy, because sooner or later, it's going to lead to social unrest and eventual upheaval. That last part isn't purely theoretical on my part. There is evidence of this.
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I disagree. For clarification, a free market is not a market based on chaos, but a market that is free to operate under the true forces of supply and demand. The unrest that you speak of has historically been based on militarism or the human desire to take resources by force.
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The words are different. I suppose it depends on how you interpret them. I studied semantics, semiotics, and critical theory in university. I don't think it's the kind of thing I want to get into here though.
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I try to avoid word games. To give a clear and concrete example of wealth creation is - farming. A farmer with land, seed, tools and labor, can harvest a surplus of food not only for his consumption but for the consumption of others. The farmer benefits and so do others on a net basis without a transfer of wealth. Those that benefit from the farmers surplus are free to do other more productive activities. In turn those activities may allow the farmer to become even more productive - creating greater and greater wealth.
The question then becomes what if you introduce taxation in to the system? It is clear that if the taxation is used as efficiently as those that are taxed, the system is not harmed. I argue that taxation is less efficient, and harms the system and harms the creation of wealth.
On another note - I know a person who has spent years in the Peace Corp., in under-developed nations. His experience is that public farms are always less productive than private farms. Why? to me it is obvious.
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It would require the rescinding of many laws that are considered fundamental.
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Some of these laws actually hurt people.
---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
You will have to wait until ace runs for office. Much like my attempted discussion with him on the flat tax.
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I refrain from mocking you, why do you insist on doing it to me? What is your point with this statement?
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We evidently have to accept ideological theoretical models that never worked anywhere at anytime in order to discuss it further.
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Read what I have written. I give specific examples that support my point of view.
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
What ace would prefer to see in the U.S. is nothing short of economic extremism.
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I support is what works. I have no tolerance for the misdirection and hiden agendas used in modern politics. We have a system that allows some to preserve wealth at the expense of other - we have a system where those in power pick winners at the expense of others - we have a system loaded with unintended consequences that do more harm than good. I support asking simple and direct questions, like - does policy X actually work? Does policy X work better than doing nothing? Simple things like that
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To even attempt to implement it would shake the very foundations of American society.
This is what makes the Tea Party a fringe party.
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Mounting debt from uncontrolled spending is shaking the very foundations of American society. After more that 40 years in the war against poverty, poverty is as bad as it has ever been.
I suggest that you and others spend some time with people who actually have to live only on aid or support from the government. It is not a good situation. It is not a situation you would wish on anyone. The movement towards more and more of a welfare state is moving towards failure and misery.
Another suggestion is to try to live the life-style of those having to live off of government. You would not do it. Why would you want more of what does not work?