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Originally Posted by roachboy
ace---do you actually think about what you write before you write it? during the speech--hell during EVERYONE's speeches whose said ANYTHING about this operation, the statement has appeared: getting gadhafi out of power is the political goal. obama has said it is not the americans' military goal. but that the united states will pursue that objective by non-military means. other countries have not said that they will so limit themselves.
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I know you get confused in the way you want to portray complexity when it does not really exist - but try to understand that Kadafi would not be in power if that was our goal. Obama wants Kadafi out of power only under certain conditions. His goals appear to be focused on creating conditions, not an end result. There are big contradictions in what Obama says, what he is doing and what is needed.
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it's a nato operation, ace dear. you can't seem to wrap your little mind around that, so can't seem to figure out that the united states isn't the only player.
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Right. This is a US operation. I don't play pretend games. Obviously you and others do. You folks can pretend that wars can be fought and won by committee or some form of a democratic consensus - but in the real world there has to be a command and control structure to a single point of accountability.
The UN passed a resolution basically for a no fly zone, it can easily be argued that the resolution has already been violated. In your mind you can continue to think things are what they are not, people in the real world don't have the luxury that you have - we live in a dynamic world where every action has a reaction, constant monitoring and adjustments. This is not theoretical stuff where you can plug in assumptions to generate predictable results.
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that said, i don't have a clear idea of what the next move will or should be--i mean like tomorrow. gadhafi's forces have apparently retaken brega. their military capacity is not eliminated by any means.
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I bet you are a weak chess player. True masters of the game can envision their moves to games end forcing their opponent's actions. Some player's can't even see their next move, just as you can't. Here is a clue:
No fly zone, advantage rebels.
Use of smaller arms and tactics, advantage Kadafi.
Tactical air support against smaller arms and tactics, advantage rebels.
Or,
Put foreign boots on the ground.
Or,
bomb Kadafi's military into next week.
Or,
pray for the rebels.
See the pattern. Then expect a response form Kadafi or a response that is unexpected, like what if he gains an ally? Who might it be? what kind of help would they give. I as well as others have already given this thought, have you? Has Obama? Then what? bottom line is we went into war, half assed - shame on us.
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i don't think the rebels have been sold a bill of goods by anyone. the only place there's been a promise of unlimited aid is in your imagination, ace. and that isn't a place that interests me.
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Am I to conclude that you can not read, I never said there was an actual promise of unlimited aid. Why make stuff up, if you can read?
People, can listen to Obama's speech and walk away hearing what they want to hear, including the rebels.
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the reality looks quite the opposite---i am thinking that there's likely to be a ground intervention sooner rather than later. hello libyans. excuse us while we hijack your revolution. thanks.
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After all the above, you agree that Obama's words are b.s., and that he was never clear on his actual objectives. Gee, why all the dramatics?