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Originally Posted by dc_dux
It is interesting that in the recent Gallup poll on the issue, more Republicans support Obama's actions in Libya (57-31) that Democrats (51-34)
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I recall writing that conservatives, liberals and middle of the road people all have legitimate reasons for being against American military action, and the opposite is true.
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It is even more interesting that you give credit to conservatives for "the ability to process current and new information in order to make decisions in the context of what is in the nation's best interest.." but criticize Obama for doing the same thing and being deliberative and measured in the US response rather than simply charging ahead w/o regard to the best interests of the US.
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My criticism of Obama on this issue has been specific. We disagree if your position is that Obama has been deliberate and measured. It is becoming clearer to me that Obama acted in a naive manner. It seems he was "suckered" into a - you go first - trick. The only reason we should - go first - if it is because we are committed to going all the way. it does not appear that we are. And like I wrote previously, if we have given false hope to people risking their lives, shame on us.
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ace...not so much. Your double standards are appallingly transparent.
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The reason I have no respect for Obama is perfectly illustrated in the manner in which he is handling the Libyan conflict and you have to agree that it is different than the way Bush handled Iraq. I respected the way Bush handled Iraq, hence there is no double standard on this point. Outside of my comments on how Obama has handled this matter, you don't know how I feel about the underlying issue, your conclusion is based on your assumptions. You have been intellectually lazy, you can do better.
---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by roachboy
ace, dear, i am fully aware of the genealogy of that statement. i dont regard it as particularly loaded racially,
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Then you are unaware.
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though it is a term that originates with african-american slang of the 60s and 70s. it refers to a lack of integrity, a willingness to dance around, to try first this then that, to bob and weave.
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This was well put.
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"To shuck and jive" originally referred to the intentionally misleading words and actions that African-Americans would employ in order to deceive racist Euro-Americans in power, both during the period of slavery and afterwards. The expression was documented as being in wide usage in the 1920s, but may have originated much earlier.
"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African-American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive."
Today, the expression has expanded somewhat from earlier usage, and is now sometimes used to mean "talking pure baloney," "goofing off," or "goofing around." The original meaning of deceit often remains, however.
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What is shuck n jive? - Yahoo! Answers
However, to Black people it is worse, and conotes these kind of images:
The above is simply FYI. I point it out because in my mind it illustrates that often in your smugness what you present here is not thought through. Either you intended your personal attack to be racial or you were ignorant of the connotation.
Even during Obama's campaign this came up as a controversial issue, that got alot of news coverage:
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The Hillary campaign might have their own surrogate with foot-in-mouth syndrome who they'll have to deal with. During an appearance yesterday on talk radio -- at almost the same time as Obama co-chair Jesse Jackson Jr. questioned Hillary's tears -- New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo used some words about Barack Obama that have a very troublesome racial history.
"It's not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can't buy your way into it," Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference," he added. "All those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."
The phrase "shuck and jive" refers to mischievous blacks behaving innocently in the presence of an authority figure, so as to lie and get out of trouble.
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Hillary Supporter Cuomo: Obama Tried To "Shuck And Jive" With Media
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the way you argue here is nothing but that. it is not a great concern to me if it offensive. i certainly only use it because it captures your m.o. so well. if it bugs you really, change your m.o.
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To anyone who has read the exchanges between me and roach in this thread,
Tell me what you think. Tell me if I should change and if so what.
---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by pan6467
LOL and I'm called a racist. Never in ANY way shape or form have I ever said anything like that here, publicly or in private. Then for the same person to say this:
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And it actually worse. It is beyond my comprehension how Biden and Reid got a pass for saying stuff about how Obama is o.k. because he is one of those clean blacks or a black who doesn't use a "negro" dialect. Then if a person has a legitimate problem with an Obama policy they are among the first to use the race card. People not knowing I am black, have even called me racist because I have no respect for Obama - and I am blacker than he is - both my parents are black.
---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by roachboy
pan---your post doesn't make sense.
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Pan, I understood your post and it does make sense. I also recall at least one series of post where you were being deemed racist. I did not agree. Some here seem to have short memories.