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Old 02-12-2011, 01:11 PM   #40 (permalink)
Jetée
The Reforms
 
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Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraph View Post
What does hari kari mean? I've always known it as Seppuku. They are dumb reasons only to you. Obviously they felt differently and they have the same brains as we do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post
And Bagatelle, what is wrong with the way the Japanese do things? The live ones seem to be very successful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagatelle View Post
When thinking of Japanese suicides, I had in my mind the image of business men jumping off of buildings, when they have failed to make success.

I didn't think of harakiri, as it's known here.
Just to chime in with my "trivialities": (I'll probably reply to the topic at large, a week later, when everybody has most likely moved on... I'd like to read everything first, then accumulate my thoughts, if you don't mind.)

The Japanese code ('tradition') of seppuku traces its origins back to the fuedual ages of Japan, with the Samurai, house clans, Shogunates and whatnot. It is basically "choosing" (there really isn't a choice, however) to end one's own life instead of facing dishonor, defeat, or bringing besmirchment/shame upon one's family/Lord. I suppose you could call it the East's version of America's catch-phrase of "Dying with Dignity". It was very widespread then until now, and still in pockets, is practiced with rigidity, that of the code of Bushido. (Think of Europe's own Middle Ages, and the 'Knight's Code of Chivalry', if you'd call it that.)

i.e.
Instead of having some more elite swordsman, a shady mistress, or a business tycoon upstage all of your life's travails and accomplishments in one fell swoop by either slicing you in two/telling your wife & family of your illicit affairs/buying out your corporation and dismantling your oonce-proud empire, you can stick it to them (as well as in yourself) by not giving them the satisfaction of a "true" defeat. This is the reason why nearly all depictions of Western Samurai are wrong: nearly every appointed samurai was tasked to hold two swords, one long, for battle and defense, while the other, short, in dire times when defeat and/or capture is near-immediate, yet also impossible to allow, the warrior would plunge the dagger (kunai?) into his belly, thereby heralding his "honorable withdrawal". In a land, with a rich tradition where winning is everything, and perfectionism, meticulousness and esteem come second to none but the family (this is more Chinese, though).

It may hard to understand now that these are the Modern Times, but back then, and not even 50-60 years ago, when not everyone could own property, be rich, or even educated, honor is the one thing that can make a person feel a spiritual richness in life. When that honor is threatened to the point of no return, and in order not to bring shame upon your family/title/superiors by still hanging around with the idea of "you have been defeated once, who is to say you shall not be defeated again; you wish to bring us down with you as well?".

If you need to know more, a good first glancing is below... (the above is just my semi-short, not-very-quickly-written, off-the-dome knowledge of what you guys are trying to incorporate to the discussion, but may be missing a few knowledge bits of history.)


[wiki.]
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Last edited by Jetée; 02-12-2011 at 01:16 PM.. Reason: added couple of quote boxes; one more sentence of anecdotal reference.
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