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crumbbum · 06-16-2003, 01:51 PM

Sun Tzu, what are you talking about? I have not delegitimized any facts here. You have repeatedly posted links to sites that represent groups in Israel that represent fringe opinions there. This doesn't make them illegitimate. I am concerned with facts. The fact that a small number of people feel any particular does not prove anything about the nature of the conflict or what can be done to bring peace, and I don't see what your intentions are in posting them. I acknowledge the differing viewpoints on this topic.

If you post facts, we can have a real discussion. My arguments are based on fact, not emotivism. If you can back up what you say, it would add greater weight to your posts. Some sources are not legit. Awhile ago, for example, one source I don't acknowledge would be the British immigration numbers as representative of the real immigration that was going on. This is because much immigration was done under British noses. This is not rejection because it's "not a zionist source"- it is rejection because there is no way that the source is accurate.

The only other source I recall dismissing was the "Independent Palestine Information Network", as I believe it was called, which was referenced for a supposed quote by Sharon about "controlling the Americans". Having never heard of this source, and aware of many lies that have been told by Palestinians propagandists, and also because the only websites I found that used this source were primarily anti-Jewish hate sites, I do not take it as legitimate. I expect sources that can be verified.

Seriously, this response seemed pretty desperate and a little hysterical- I am all for honest discussion and disagreement, but not if your attitude is "Don't confuse me with the facts". We are not discussing me, we are discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict, and I would appreciate it if we could stick to the facts and to legitimate debate, with intellectual honesty and a commitment to the truth. Your comparing me to this mysterious political party (German by any chance?) does nothing to increase understanding in this discussion, and is simply mudslinging. You don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't want to, but that is unacceptable.

What I said before is that if you disagree, which you have a right to obviously, I would hope that you could respond to the facts I've presented and explain why you disagree, or how you would discount claims I've made. If you disagree, you have to demonstrate why and what that position is based on, and you have to be able to explain the things I've posted. The response above is not constructive and has no place in a discussion about an issue as important as this one.

06-16-2003, 01:51 PM	#66 (permalink)
crumbbum Crazy Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)	Sun Tzu, what are you talking about? I have not delegitimized any facts here. You have repeatedly posted links to sites that represent groups in Israel that represent fringe opinions there. This doesn't make them illegitimate. I am concerned with facts. The fact that a small number of people feel any particular does not prove anything about the nature of the conflict or what can be done to bring peace, and I don't see what your intentions are in posting them. I acknowledge the differing viewpoints on this topic. If you post facts, we can have a real discussion. My arguments are based on fact, not emotivism. If you can back up what you say, it would add greater weight to your posts. Some sources are not legit. Awhile ago, for example, one source I don't acknowledge would be the British immigration numbers as representative of the real immigration that was going on. This is because much immigration was done under British noses. This is not rejection because it's "not a zionist source"- it is rejection because there is no way that the source is accurate. The only other source I recall dismissing was the "Independent Palestine Information Network", as I believe it was called, which was referenced for a supposed quote by Sharon about "controlling the Americans". Having never heard of this source, and aware of many lies that have been told by Palestinians propagandists, and also because the only websites I found that used this source were primarily anti-Jewish hate sites, I do not take it as legitimate. I expect sources that can be verified. Seriously, this response seemed pretty desperate and a little hysterical- I am all for honest discussion and disagreement, but not if your attitude is "Don't confuse me with the facts". We are not discussing me, we are discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict, and I would appreciate it if we could stick to the facts and to legitimate debate, with intellectual honesty and a commitment to the truth. Your comparing me to this mysterious political party (German by any chance?) does nothing to increase understanding in this discussion, and is simply mudslinging. You don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't want to, but that is unacceptable. What I said before is that if you disagree, which you have a right to obviously, I would hope that you could respond to the facts I've presented and explain why you disagree, or how you would discount claims I've made. If you disagree, you have to demonstrate why and what that position is based on, and you have to be able to explain the things I've posted. The response above is not constructive and has no place in a discussion about an issue as important as this one. __________________ Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.