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roachboy · 12-11-2010, 10:21 AM

there are a bunch of questions at the least about this.

first, it's inevitably a political matter because what you make of the fbi actions has everything to do with what you make of this "war on terror" charade. kinda on the same order as what you make of the bombings in yemen. if you're inclined to see the "war on terror" as a legitimate rationale for action, then if you problems with holder's statement of this morning (and what they're about), they're likely to be more narrow than they would be if you don't see the "war on terror" as legitimate.

i'm inclined toward the second position.

from the narrower perspective, the obvious question is whether this is or is not entrapment.
which would make of it the kind of thing that happens all the time in, say, cocaine interdiction efforts where small-time dealers (typically) are set up in "sting" operations that walk the same kind of line---because once you're stung, questions of whether you were a legit target (following on some profile or another presumably) drop away behind the fact of being-stung, and the argument shifts away from whether the operation as a whole is a Problem and onto whether in particular situation x the cops went too far in setting up the conditions that enabled the outcome.
i think this kind of proactive operation from the cops or fbi are bound to be problems for that reason, even if you accept arguments about their utility (i don't in the main) and legality (which seems to me questionable, but i'm not an expert).

but this is the narrower set of problems.
there's a bigger one with the de facto criminalization---or at least bringing-under-suspicion---of folk who fit a particular racial profile and happen to be muslim in the states. and the statement holder made is pretty bush-worthy in it's vagueness.

but that'd be political.

i seem to have restated the op. ah well.

i read this article in the washington post about the same thing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2010121007763

which highlights several other...um...ambiguities about holder's line. like whether this "reaching out to the muslim community" business actually exists. commentary in the article from folk who are closer than i to the matter.

12-11-2010, 10:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	there are a bunch of questions at the least about this. first, it's inevitably a political matter because what you make of the fbi actions has everything to do with what you make of this "war on terror" charade. kinda on the same order as what you make of the bombings in yemen. if you're inclined to see the "war on terror" as a legitimate rationale for action, then if you problems with holder's statement of this morning (and what they're about), they're likely to be more narrow than they would be if you don't see the "war on terror" as legitimate. i'm inclined toward the second position. from the narrower perspective, the obvious question is whether this is or is not entrapment. which would make of it the kind of thing that happens all the time in, say, cocaine interdiction efforts where small-time dealers (typically) are set up in "sting" operations that walk the same kind of line---because once you're stung, questions of whether you were a legit target (following on some profile or another presumably) drop away behind the fact of being-stung, and the argument shifts away from whether the operation as a whole is a Problem and onto whether in particular situation x the cops went too far in setting up the conditions that enabled the outcome. i think this kind of proactive operation from the cops or fbi are bound to be problems for that reason, even if you accept arguments about their utility (i don't in the main) and legality (which seems to me questionable, but i'm not an expert). but this is the narrower set of problems. there's a bigger one with the de facto criminalization---or at least bringing-under-suspicion---of folk who fit a particular racial profile and happen to be muslim in the states. and the statement holder made is pretty bush-worthy in it's vagueness. but that'd be political. i seem to have restated the op. ah well. i read this article in the washington post about the same thing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2010121007763 which highlights several other...um...ambiguities about holder's line. like whether this "reaching out to the muslim community" business actually exists. commentary in the article from folk who are closer than i to the matter. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 12-11-2010 at 10:27 AM..