View Single Post
Old 12-08-2010, 06:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
Jinn
Lover - Protector - Teacher
 
Jinn's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
You'll notice your arguments for a whole require incredible verbosity compared to the arguments for reality in parts.

Likewise, your arguments for 'reality in whole' are wholly unconvincing. Not to particularly pick on you, but I have to reject it outright (then again, I subscribe to the "materialist paradigm"). Many of them are simply misunderstandings of the science involved.

Quote:
To prove how separate you really are from everything around you, stop eating food. See how "separate" you really are. If you want even faster verification, stop breathing the air. Oh .. you're not so separate as you thought!
This belies interdependence, not 'wholeness', for me. Certainly we are connected via ecosystems (food pyramid?) but that does not mean we are a unified organism; our diet is an apt example of this - we can easily replace foods with other foods and not suffer any ill effects. Even a properly prepared 'stew' of essential acids and vitamins would be sufficient to keep us in proper health.


Quote:
The fundamental particles that make up matter are not actually different, they only appear different. They are all the same vibrating string in 11 dimensions. The different particles are simply different vibrational modes of that self-same string.
Is this an attempt at string theory? From my vantage point, that doesn't describe the situation accurately at all.

Quote:
The fundamental particles that make up matter are not actually different. They are all symmetries of an exceptional simple Lie group called E8. This gives rise to their apparent difference. The self-same particle is merely rotating through spacetime on a different axis-of-symmetry.
And this? What's the origin here?

Quote:
The differences we perceive are created through the act of perception itself. The dividing lines between these things we call "objects" are arbitrary distinctions. What motivates our brains to create these divisions is a necessity in ancestors to propagate their genetic material to offspring. This necessity is not written into reality itself, but is created a posteriori by those ancestors who happened to have reproduced. (I.e. the accidental success at reproduction later created the so-called "necessity").
This is the best argument so far, for me. Certainly, we create divisions and boundaries exist, primarily because of the way our cognitive abilities are subdivided into discrete calculations. I'm not sure an easy rebuttal for this argument exists. There is no denying the 'schema' model of our brain; things are organized by their constituent properties and divided into groups by any number of characteristics, arbitrary or not. Separating ourselves from our own perception of the world is nigh impossible. If this claim is true, I have a hard time being interested in it because it's simply untestable. And as an adherent of the "materialist paradigm", that makes it largely useless. In short, if it's true, we'll never know and so I have a hard time caring.


Quote:
The arbitrary divisions in reality created above are projected onto the outside world, not the other way around. The first projection of "difference" came when early bacteria differentiated food from its own waste matter. This distinction, as "real" as it seems, is not contained in physics per se.
I'm not sure here. I don't see how bacterial food selection is not 'contained in physics per se' ?

Quote:
Physicists at CERN believe the four fundamental forces of nature are all actually a single Master Force. It appears in different guises only because something called spontaneous symmetry-breaking takes place at lower temperatures. By "lower temperatures" we mean energy is not as hot as the universe was in the first second after the Big Bang.
I'm not sure this is accurate either. CERN is looking for (among other things) the Higgs-Boson, and I haven't seen any reputable scientist advance that this is self-same with another particle or force at different temperature/pressure.

Quote:
Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but only changes form. The total energy of the universe, then, must be some constant exact number. Different 'stuff' is not different, it is the Same "Stuff/Thing" in different guises.
Second best argument. I think conservation of energy is a solid case for 'wholeness', at least given a near-infinite timeline. As my hero was fond of saying, "We are stardust." We are indeed, on a long timescale, made of particles that originated with the creation of the universe, galaxy, and ultimately planet. The molecules which formed our first DNA (from which all the rest of us is synthesized) originates with our parents, which originated with their parents, etc. The only limitation is timescale, so it's again a difficult proposition. Arguing that we're "whole" on an infinite timeline is not terribly meaningful to me, considering the discrete (and short on celestial timescales) lifetime of the average human.

Quote:
From thermodynamics. A system that has reached equilibrium cannot be used to tell time. This suggests that time is not an aspect of physics. Time is not inherent in nature, but instead is a byproduct of relationships of the "Energy Stuff/Thing" (see above) as it coordinates itself in space.
True, time is not a fundamental force, and a simple measurement of seconds elapsed from a human perspective. Our perception of time could be (and likely would be) dramatically different than the perception of time by any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial race. I'm not sure that indicates we're "whole" in any sense, only that having memories requires a non-arbitrary scale of elapsed time to give them meaning.


Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/newrepl...#ixzz17WwK40Lw
__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel
Jinn is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360