Well from a practical standpoint the real problem is going to be all the people on the ground that the vatican has had telling everyone that condoms come pre-infected with HIV, or have holes to let the virus through, or some similar nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazy
You are trying to say that condom use argument was a Jewish argument, you then said Pekuach Nefesh, and I am saying that saving a life is a Jewish concept but not necessarily with condoms. I can not even say that if your spouse has HIV if you can use a condom, I plan on asking that today, but I do not think that is so clear and simple even. You want to come up with a case where it maybe ok in Jewish law, sure there is might potentially be a scenario hypothetically. I am saying it is not a Jewish argument.
No the Jewish concept is keep it in your pants then. You can not just say this is one Jewish concept without taking in to account the cumulative belief.
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Dude you can keep insisting all you want that I said something I didn't but my post is
right there. I specifically said that allowing condom use because you're placing the saving of a life over the rules against condoms is a very jewish argument, nothing more, nothing less. That is more or less exactly how Pikuach Nefesh works: the commandment that one is to place the preservation of human life above all but 3 other laws.
I don't see why you insist on continuing to pretend that I'm saying something I'm not, and tbh the more you indulge your fantasy argument where I'm some kind of hedonism-promoting sex fiend the more it seems like you're actually operating under christian values and assumptions rather than jewish ones. I mean seriously man? You actually need to ask about a married couple in that situation? You really think that "keep it in his pants" and deny her right is the proper course?
And if you want to go "cumulative belief" that's fine, it just makes you
even more wrong because Pikuach Nefesh still overrides all but 3 laws, she still has her rights, and the "cumulative belief" for unmarried people would undeniably be "Don't,
but if you do, at least protect yourselves and others". I have never met a rabbi that said no out of spite like the christians do, sure they'll spend hours trying to weasel out of admitting it because of how much they insist on abstinence, but if you nail them down...