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roachboy · 10-13-2010, 12:11 PM

cimmaron---where exactly does support for stuff like dadt come from? who votes for these "defense of marriage" referenda? you can't possibly pretend that these and other wedge issues that are exploited for political gain by conservative organizations are somehow not conservative issues.

what is it that keeps the obama administration from, as dan savage says, making things better when they are in a position to do it, and to do it right now? pressure from conservative organizations. period.

at the same time, it'd be foolish to say that there are not individuals who are in some ways conservative who oppose these same actions and the bigotry that animate them (and which makes them successful as wedge issues). for example, i have some friends who are quite militant around questions that pertain to equality for gay people, including the right to marry, and who have been for some time whose combination of dispositional conservatism on other grounds and disgust with what they call "gay inc." makes the space of the log cabin republicans comfortable for them. and while i might disagree with the calculations they make, i understand why they do what they do. this even as it baffles me every time i talk to these folk how they manage to convince themselves that the republican platforms in general are more amenable to ANY notion of equality for ANYONE, not just folk who happen to be gay. but it's a tactical thing for them. and a locally driven thing.

almost anything gets more complex as you move closer to "real life".

it's good to push rhetorically to make space---but you can't go so far as to deny reality to do it. well, you can. but it's better if you don't. the fact of the matter seems to me to be that the organized conservative movement has done a whole lot more to make folk like you feel uncomfortable with identifying as a conservative than anything anyone's said or could say here.

10-13-2010, 12:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	cimmaron---where exactly does support for stuff like dadt come from? who votes for these "defense of marriage" referenda? you can't possibly pretend that these and other wedge issues that are exploited for political gain by conservative organizations are somehow not conservative issues. what is it that keeps the obama administration from, as dan savage says, making things better when they are in a position to do it, and to do it right now? pressure from conservative organizations. period. at the same time, it'd be foolish to say that there are not individuals who are in some ways conservative who oppose these same actions and the bigotry that animate them (and which makes them successful as wedge issues). for example, i have some friends who are quite militant around questions that pertain to equality for gay people, including the right to marry, and who have been for some time whose combination of dispositional conservatism on other grounds and disgust with what they call "gay inc." makes the space of the log cabin republicans comfortable for them. and while i might disagree with the calculations they make, i understand why they do what they do. this even as it baffles me every time i talk to these folk how they manage to convince themselves that the republican platforms in general are more amenable to ANY notion of equality for ANYONE, not just folk who happen to be gay. but it's a tactical thing for them. and a locally driven thing. almost anything gets more complex as you move closer to "real life". it's good to push rhetorically to make space---but you can't go so far as to deny reality to do it. well, you can. but it's better if you don't. the fact of the matter seems to me to be that the organized conservative movement has done a whole lot more to make folk like you feel uncomfortable with identifying as a conservative than anything anyone's said or could say here. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite